Remove the Transform Active Tools

The only problem with the shorcut is that it always go back to box select tool (because I don’t know how you can’t invoke the actual select tool). But that is also good because a user that don’t know how to solve the problem of be stick in circle select tool can use it to go back to basic mode.

But, except that, work well… I think that @billrey could test it and see that it don’t broke any workflow and improve A LOT the UX of newbies.

I guess the word active tool is messing with you
An active tool is not something that you deactivate. You switch tools. If you want to switch to a selection tool then you press the shortcut of it. This is how tools work. Forget the Esc, this is something for modal operators only.

You must to do in the bottom field, not the main field, at left of “press” menu

This isn’t about what is possible through scripting or changing the keymap. It is about first impressions when opening blender.

I’ve written scripts to get the exact behavior I want.

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man not to break my **** on how I work, I use both modes because I find it good to use both, but I use one at a time, so I want and want to press esc when I’m done with the active tool, just like I do with the modal tools I don’t want between the feet the active tool while I’m using other modes, I ended up with that operation, done, can get out it of the boxes, and have to do it by pressing esc :wink::grin:

You are explaining that something that is an improvement and a facility for new users should not be implemented when numerous users would understand it (especially novices, they are going to understand perfectly) just because it doesn’t happen at the moment. It’s like explaining that smoking marijuana is wrong because the current law says it’s illegal. It’s about changing it.

Yeah, it’s called active tool, I’m sure that blender won’t break because we have a default active tool that new user can go back with ESC key. In the mind of any ESC person is to escape. And when you’ve gotten into a problem pressing ESC is one of the first things someone uses to try to fix it.

But this doesn’t bother you, ESC is currently unused. And on top of that, again, it unifies the use of modal tools and active tools.

Seriously, I don’t know why so much resistance to this change among users who don’t currently use escape for anything. That key hasn’t worked for 20 years, they ask to give a facility to new users and they say no because you want to keep it empty? because photoshop don’t do it?

here there is nothing to understand, I understood very well that if I want to go back to the select mode I have to press the “select mode active tool” button …
and believe me it is not a matter of understanding or not understanding, it is simply annoying

because in this way, either i would have to use only the active tools, or just only the modal tools.
to have both crossing, it is confusing.
And in my head, it’s like a tool want to impose on me also in the operations I have to do while I’m doing in the modal tool mode …
And my mind says: “active tool goo awayyy and i press " esc” and press "esc " but it’s like a virus, nothing happens :joy:

Just to make one thing clear.
I’m not rude to people when I say something,
at best we joke, I become rude about the ways of functioning of the program, when from my point of view I find it irrational, uncomfortable.
by this I do not want to say that I have the truth in my hand, I just explain my opinion.
what I really think about how a thing works.
(maybe it could be two to language misunderstandings, english is not my first language)

1 Like

What are you talking about? :smile:

We propose something better for new users, something that doesn’t change the workflow or UX of any current user. It simply unifies the understanding of the ESC key to the active tools, facilitating the experience of new users.

And we must close that the active tools are called active tools?

last week we closed ourselves to the fact that the topbar could only be a topbar? now it is a tool-settings bar that can be up, down, in the viewport on the left or on the right…

If you feel bad for somebody, do it for you, bceause you can’t change or improve a simple idea only by the name that have. I’m sure that you will never use other thing that a chair for sitting…

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u people should know that Active tools should work well with the “industry compatible keymap” and behaves in a more predictable way, that’s the point of this topic in a general sense, changing their functionalities just for this keymap will do the job and there is no point in arguing in circles.

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that’s a good idea
blender keymap, priority of use to the “blender way”
industry standard key map, utilization priority for the “industry way”

The whole issue here seems to be fear of new users doing any sort of customization. Use the keymap if you need more than what the included ones provide. Work on the existing ones to get them close enough that most people wouldn’t think about customization, there is a point of diminishing returns here though. Mostly because everyone is different.

If you want esc key to leave the transform tools, just map it to the selection tool of your choice. Maybe employ the use of autohotkey if it conflicts with blenders cancel operation. Or just map your selection mode(s) of choice to an acceptable button.

You do lose something by changing how the transform tools work. Sure, even right now, you can get the functionality that you are wanting. Which is, not leaving the selection tool, aka not entering the transform tools. The problem is, if you are like me and enjoy transforming with both the blender way and the maya way, it is way less ergonomic to set it up.

It makes more sense to just hit one key for using either move scale or rotate, and then dragging to select, or dragging to blender move, and then having modifier shortcuts to do drag move, or drag select. I can access any selection mode I want from 3 active transform tools, and have it behave exactly like maya. Plus, if you want it to do a blender style move, it is just a ctrl-RMB. If you are more blender inclined, the opposite is just as ergonomic. Ctrl-RMB is just my choice, anything you want can be substituted.

But if I want to do the same with the selection tools, I need 3 times the shortcuts, a different one for each transform. I don’t know about you, but I am safe assuming you move between GRS a lot more than you move between different select modes. The gizmo that turns the manipulators on/off is cool, but it isn’t as good as doing it the other way around. Not for me.

So, since both ways happily coexist currently, and even without the manipulator gizmo, you can still get what you want. Why would anybody choose to remove a viable alternative? What harm is it doing?

That is not in any way what the issue is. I don’t want the non-user friendly active transform tools to drive people away. If new users decide to stick around despite this and are forced to go to the even less user friendly keymap editor then the situation is worse, not better.

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I just told you the solution to this. Work on the keymaps to the point, say, where someone like me has them. The tools are just fine with a keymap that is setup to work more like maya. Also, just provide a little help, and perhaps a little tweaking to the keymap itself, to be more user-friendly. Seriously though, don’t bother spending too much time.

The solution is certainly not nuking from orbit just because an alternative keymap isn’t perfect in beta

15 years of right click select.
By using right click select and 3D Cursor as active tool, I can ignore active tool.

With left click select, it is more annoying to use 3D cursor has active tool than select_box.
But active tools have customizable shortcuts, too.

No problem, here. left click on field showing W letter. That gives to me Press Key indication.
At that moment, pressing Esc works.

After a quick test, it looks like using Esc instead of W does not hurt. So, I don’t really care if keymap is changed.
What annoys me is the cycling of tools of same category.
That can be disabled for select tools.

But I don’t know how to call a precised custom brush.

1 Like

I got a question for you. What’s the most user-friendly 3d app available?

We need a better brush system, blender2.8 is really bad.

@RonanDucluzeau @Alberto
finally I managed to set “esc” on select_tool_box

it’s just great!
it’s as if I’ve freed my mind from a bad worm.
now I can use the active tools several times as long as I need, and once I’m done and I want to continue with the modal tools, I naturally press “esc” and then the modal tool I want and works!
I know it’s a trivial thing, but my mind now feels light and satisfied, and I can pick up the rhythm again!

2 Likes

I’m also putting this in the first post, but I’ve made an addon that modifies the tweak behavior of the Select Active tool. This will basically make what I’m wanting work. Basically it changes the drag behavior when the Select Active Tool is enabled to perform the transform based on what Gizmo is enabled. Please try it out and give feedback.

This creates a QWER Panel with Move, Rotate, and Scale buttons in the “N” panel. These enable the Transform Gizmos that are normally hidden away in the Viewport Gizmo drop down. Unlike the check boxes in that drop down menu, these can be assigned to keyboard shortcuts.

QWER Panel

It also enables a new transform mode that can be assigned to a Tweak shortcut for the Select Active Tool in the active tools toolbar. It basically give the select tool the ability to Move, Rotate, or Scale based on what Gizmo is currently active instead of being stuck in Move tweak mode.

Select Active Tool

The TweakBetter operator can be assigned by adding a new entry under the “3D View Tool: Select” category like so:
TweakBetter

3 Likes

I’m not confused. The tweak tool is no different from dragging with the move active tool enabled or using the move modifier ‘g’ key of the default keymap. X,y,z,mmb drag, number keys keys all work exactly the same.

So, THEY ARE THE SAME AND DO HAVE THE SAME BEHAVIOR. Try my TweakBetter addon and you’ll see what I mean.

With my addon, which I think should be the way the toolbar icons work, the behavior of the select tool is completely unchanged if there are zero gizmos active.

Select Tool and drag = Move (Tweak as you call it)

But with gizmos active:

Select Tool + Rotate Gizmo = Rotate Active Tool (drag rotates like the active tool)

Select Tool + Scale Gizmo = Scale Active Tool (drag resizes)

Select Tool + Move Gizmo = Move Active Tool (the same as move active tool -OR- move gizmo + select active tool. Why are there two ways to have this behavior presently? Seems pretty buggy to me)

2 Likes

Industry Compat Keymap: Support box select for more tools with gizmos
https://developer.blender.org/rB2947888eaeb2b665d1f0cb843950c23cd4dfa2b7