Totally agree with @TeaCrab, pie menus are the best bet to solve the Mode change problem and all those keymap changes are worse than odd, are frustrating.
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Sorry to say that but seems like we lost our loved blender.
Other people like the changes, we are the ignored ones.
Time to start learn maya…
I’m gonna take a look at Modo.
Hey… There is User Preference and Input configuration for a reason… I don’t think Maya or Modo is a good investment simply because 2.8 is making things a bit different.
As a professional I see right now a waste of time going on with blender. Already in the last studio I was in I didn’t want to support Blender because I just didn’t know where Blender2.8 was going to end up. And after seeing where Blender2.8 is going I don’t regret it.
Maybe Blender is a toy for some developers, even for @Ton. For me it is a working tool on which my salary depends. Because these “unimportant” changes can mean you have to spend an extra half-hour each day doing the same thing. And I can’t keep an eye on X versions for changing the workflow, the main hotkeys, the whole interface, smearing my name professionally and making my colleagues angry. I, who am the one who takes the risk professionally, don’t want to support blender seriously for things like the ones we are seeing here.
It’s a really huge hassle, having to constantly watch the development of blender2.8 to see what it’s going to break. I prefer to pay and have a program that thinks of its users first. All the people I know in the industry don’t care about all this nonsense we’re discussing here. Because they know that they do not have to worry about anything, because the next version of their favorite program will be the same but with improvements and will not break anything of the previous unless it is completely and urgently needed for technical reasons and not for the taste of one or two people.
Anyone expect Maya to change the function of the space bar tomorrow? No. Here all the essential hotkeys of the program have been changed without affecting the new features or any need for them, nor is the program any easier to use.
Blender is then expected to be taken seriously, as these decisions do not help.
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If you use 2.79 for your job, the development of 2.8 doesn’t affect 2.79 and we can keep using it forever for as long as we’d like to.
If you use 2.8 for your job, why do you use an experimental tool for your job as a professional?
That’s beside my point.
Where ever Blender 2.8 ends up, it’s going to be a great tool. Tons of things may be different, but given time those minor changes will be accustomed to. I agree that these changes do affect the time we had to spend on working once we decide to use 2.8 professionally for our work. And a lot of us simply can not afford it. I also agree with you on the points about other software. Their updates do bring about improvements and new features and those things only. Not like us who had to deal with changes to basic features and UI and whatnot once in a while.
That’s, unfortunately, the feature of Open source development. Things change on the fly, and devs go about their business in the way they believe helps their software, and there is nothing we can do. Because we are not the entitled customers we could have been for software like Maya or Modo. We are simply not part of the responsibilities of Blender’s developers.
So, as much as I’d like to complain and that I already did, there is no point in simply giving up. Things may become a bit more difficult, a bit more time-consuming, a lot more buggy for the first while, ultimately it will smooth out.
If Blender truly is to be taken seriously, then yes, these changes don’t make a lot of sense, unnecessary if not completely frustrating. Either way, I don’t think Blender cares at the moment. There are more prominent features coming together that I think far outweighs what minor changes that got me upset.
“If something’s not broken, don’t fix it”. This line make a lot of sense.
If things end up where I expect, I’m going to write an addon.
“Retromode” or “Backfast” sounds like good names, I accept help, maybe we get it on the official addons for who dont want to work slower on 2.8.
And the problem with using 2.79 is that we wont get acess to EEVEE, the only good adition to blender at the moment.
Simply to put the wireframe theme into perspective (for example). I have calculated, with a stopwatch, how long it takes me to make ten changes between wireframe/solid in blender 2.79 and 2.8. The results have been
- Blender2.79 => 1.3 seconds per shift
- Blender2.8 => 10 seconds per change
In a normal working day of eight hours, I could use this hotkey perfectly 300 times a day. This means that the time required for this in 2.79 is 400 seconds (6 minutes) and in blender 2.8 is 3000 seconds (50 minutes). I have two options.
- See how each year my working day grows by 211 hours
- Just use the wireframe 36 times a day and see my workflow absolutely compromised.
Now after the complaintsof a lot of users, he’s gonna try to fix it. But this kind of thing is not changed for this reason, because maybe it will fix this, but not other things that affect the workflow of users in the same way but as they complain less… because they have no voice.
If there are no users to help in part of the development is not because it is open source or that there are no users wanting to help, including myself.
There are hundreds of community proposals, and they all have many points in common. Requests from professional users as well. I believe that between the user requests and the breakthrough ideas of the developers there is a lot of room to integrate new ideas without negatively affecting the users. Same active tools is a great example, a completely new workflow has been created without users being affected by any of the previous features, at least until today. It is up to the user to decide whether to use the cursor or any other of the new tools. And the same could have happened with the other changes.
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The only hope we have is wait to devs realize too late that they made bad changes and revert stuff once half of the people stop using blender.
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Are you sure it is impossible to script a hot key for yourself to quickly enable wireframe and disable it?
With 2.79 I was able to do a lot of macro script to bundle a bunch of settings I prefer and toggle them with a single key.
Unless it is limited by blender’s performance, there should be a way to speed up every possible manual work through scripting
It’s not about making a temporary arrangement for a single person, it’s about everyone having good software from day one.
I’m here to try to find a solution to a problem. I’d like to give the devs the benefit of the doubt and respect their decisions.
And, hopefully they will make good decisions.
“Eevee is the only good addition to Blender”.
In this single image we have:
- Active tools
- Random colours
- Cavity shader
- Shadows
- X-ray mode
- Wireframes over solid mode
- Multi-object editing
And this only taking 3d view as an example: not to mention the performance improvements due to the rewrite of the code. With everything still being WIP and new stuff coming every day.
But it seems that you prefer this:
(spoiler: devs already said that pure wireframes will come back in some form, with a preset or a proper drawing mode).
You can be sceptical about the changes, as I am for a couple of things, but you’re showing zero respect for the work of developers that have been working on Blender for ages, treating them as kids that don’t know what they’re doing, and repeating the same two things over and over again.
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Of course that I prefer to have the tools that I used the last twenty years that some modes that give me few real improvements.
And could be good don’t mix interface and hotkeys discussion with multiedit and viewport. That it is nothing to do with the topic.
Also, when somebody comment with a lot of arguments and reason, reply that he is a kid is not a great mature reply.
It’s too early to benchmark individual operations like this. Tests like this make sense in Beta/Release Candidate.
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I never said that you’re a kid, I said that you’re treating developers as kids.
Also it doesn’t really matter if my post was off-topic, I could’ve written it in any of the topics you’re commenting, cause the focus wasn’t the viewport, the ui or the multi-object editing, it was your and Jean’s attitude in this forum, attitude that for sure doesn’t help neither your cause nor the developers work.
It seems to me that all of what you’re saying here is basically : “give me a 2.79 with Eevee and an industry standard keymap”.
That’s not the point of the 2.8 project.
If you use Blender for your work then you can keep using 2.79 as you’re doing now, no one will touch it, and I’m sure people will keep supporting add-ons for it, and when 2.8 is finally out and stable you can try it out and see if it will help or not your workflow.
When you want to write arguments you let me know, in the meantime you’re muted
lets not be imature here, blender is getting better, but just will be so different that will scare away thousands of current blender lovers in order to become industry standard.
We could replace suzanne with a teapot also, nohing is more industry standard than the teapot.