no we are not and we have proven you wrong with the suggestions we make, i don’t care if they remove or keep t shelf as long as it works well with the whole new active tools system, and let me teach you something, never ever attack people on personal level but discuss ideas, instead of calling people names and false acusse them you should say this idea doesn’t work because of this and that…this way you’ll get more respect than you think, keep it professional and never personal but you seem to lack that understanding…
I think this should be the main 2.8 topic, being more important than left right click select
I wasn’t aware of this thread and I again reported the situation: Blender UI paper cuts - #1210 by RiccardoGagliarducci
We love Blender because the interface was:
- Non overlapping
- Non bloking
- Non modal
as commented in
Looking the proposal I’m really not happy about having something on top of my content (popup, popover, floating windows, …): I really think that NON overlapping is a very good idea worth keeping. I vote for solution A or C, really does not matter if configuration is on top, right, left or bottom…
We have many examples of big software (ex. Autocad - overlapping/blocking, Photoshop - overlapping ) that moved from an overlapping situation to a better one, where the top bar is really the reference of the current status ( event if they do NON have multiple windows/areas for the same file!).
In the open source world The Gimp made a similar path, allowing single-window mode.
Freecad, like many industrial cad, does not allow multiple works at the same time (like or you model or you do uv, no way having both on the screen).
We have also interesting examples in open source world where Krita Pop-up Palette makes the tools configuration right under the mouse (like Z-Brush or like our pie menu…).
So let’s keep the good (non overlap) and skip the not applicable (unique topbar)!
But, in the meantime that a better solution is found, is there a bare minumum solution that makes every one less sad?
I do think that the top panel has some main issue but, as first step and getting heard, what do you think about starting to agree to have, at least, the top toolbar updated when the mouse changes window, to have - at least - a coherent state (as it is the bottom bar that suggest mouse commands)?
Yes, I was thinking that maybe the properties editor should be renamed project settings instead. That would still mean moving none project settings out of it, though.
Thank you. This was my main aim at coming here and contesting the suggestion that blender should start using pop-ups and overlapping windows in the interface. There are certain paradigms that Blender has put in place. As soon as Blender starts allowing windows to cover other windows, an important paradigm of the Blender UI philosophy has been tampered with. At the point that windows covering windows becomes an accepted way of working in blender, add on developers will start abusing it.
I really feel that this is what happened with the T panel. One or two addon developers used it for a good location for the interface for their tools and made separate T panel tabs for their addons. Before long we had hundreds of addons each with a tab unique to their perposes. Now the end user who wants retopology and arch viz (3 flavors) and camera matching and lighting management and modelling tools and boolean modelling tools and kitbash tools (also three flavors) etc. ends up with so many tabs in the T panel that no single tab label is readable. The T panel became so overly saturated with tools that it was almost unusable. Nothing in the T panel conformed to UI paradigms that were used by any other thing in the T panel. It was a free for all.
This will happen if we start allowing new areas like this to popup. I think if we start allowing windows blocking windows, we will not only have the developers of the Blender Foundation adding new window blockers, but every addon developer known to man will add a window blocker or two to their addon and once again we’ll have a cluttered free for all of an interface.
Opinions aren’t right or wrong. They’re just opinions. I want your opinion to be heard. Can mine be heard as well?
I would rather devs find something “relaxing” that actually promotes the Blender UI paridigms, which I wholeheartedly support and agree with, therefore, I’ve made my personal opinion on this matter heard.
By the way, devs are 100% a part of anything that happens in Blender development (by definition). Using you’re bizzaro argument style I will say that this cannot be disputed. There is absolutely no way to dispute the fact that any new feature of software will have to be touched by developers. Therefore, any feature will be created at the expense of other possible features that can be developed. I would argue that any feature that directly contradicts the very philosophy of Blender development should be considered a lower priority than any other feature which doesn’t contradict Blender philosophy. This is 100% my complete argument against what you propose. You can continue changing your argument to the point that you are right and I am wrong. I don’t care. I have said all I have to say on the point of windows blocking the interface.
I generally agree with you on most points (not this one obviously) and feel like your opinions have helped steer Blender in the right direction for the most part., and therefore feel a little guilt in contradicting your beliefs on this matter, but I’m going to make sure that other voices are heard here, because I don’t want you to steer devs in a direction that move Blender away from what makes it (in my opinion) superior to other 3d software.
I just don’t understand why someone would argue against this… It just doesn’t make sense to me, since this ability wouldn’t change absolutely nothing in the way people work with blender currently. There are no possible disadvantages if this feature is added.
The way I see it, this is nothing more than a “paper cut”, perfect for new devs to fix. I certainly would try it if I was a blender dev.
The issue there is not so much the plurality but the fact that there is no interface and user experience guidelines.
This is something that blender has always been lacking. Blender is a platform, it needs design guidelines both for the core as well as addon developers.
There were this kind of guidelines in the wiki but everything went 404 with the constant updates to the site.
What dark magic is this?!?!
Heavypoly scripts… plus with some color customization, shortcurts and script for objects display properties
I only use its popups and pie menus …
not its configuration …heavy poly is too radical even for me …
but the use of its popups, especially in full screen mode is very convenient …
I think those mock-up are nice to see but the workflow has to be taken in account.
Let’s take the first one (but the same applies to the others):
you really modify the shader in wireframe mode?
Can you make the same mock-up in a real scene where you have many objects and you want to see the preview of the whole image and tweak the material of one object?
Can you show how you would display a more complex shader, composed by 3 or 4 nodes? If you find a solution, why the node editor exist?
Normally you jump from one object to another ( while in rendered mode ): as you select, the node editor content is updated, showing the shader of the current active object.
Right after selecting another object the pop up is still active or not? How you call it or how you close it? Is it comfortable to repeatedly open or close the editor? And if it is a shortcut, show fits in blender shortcuts? And to open Mesh properties? And Object properties? And particles? And so on… (this means a brand new interface for Blender !)
And more: where it should be displayed? Pie menu are displayed under the mouse position: if you chose to open the menu in the same way, you select and the pop-up is right above the object you want to edit. If you chose a fixed position, for example, always on the right, you have to move to reach the commands and it is not so comfortable… like to having a fixed panel.
Pie menu “pop-up” works because it is an instant action, few options, one movement…
I think those are some of the questions you need to answer if you really want to study a pop-up system for blender.
nokipaike, sorry, I think I misinterpret your post…
Until now I never saw Heavypoly scripts!
Really don’t know what to think:
some part I think are inappropriate and really tight to a custom use and workflow, while some other ideas are not bad, like the pie to change window type… handy and fitting the pie menu concepts.
the post was more of a joking provocation in response to the use of popups … nothing else …
in summary I made a customization, in some cases I am comfortable using popups and pie menu for convenience and immediacy in the use of shortcurt …
to answer some of your questions, the obvious shading in wireframes does not work … I set the object so I then selected the popup of the materials, but actually the screenshot is out of context …
credimi mi ci trovo bene… specialmente quando lavoro con le finestre fullscreen… utilizzo shortcurt che di per se non danno fastidio all’interfaccia generale…
I’m restarting this thread after some months without any update.
I’m starting my third course at university teaching Blender and, explaining blender interface to students, make me convinced that this top-bar is really not part of the interface
Do you think that this feedback should be in the list of:
I’m really excited, I can not wait to see what will happen during the homestreatch period…
I think so: topbar would make sense if it was into editors (those who might need it anyway)
This proposal was an attempt to make it work in the current position: https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/CHbbbc/
I see that this proposal is getting attention: