Embarrassing quotes in official Blender tutorial videos

For goodness’ sake… :upside_down_face:

Might be worth checking out for anybody tired of holding middle mouse all day. I use autohotkey for camera rotation and position. Press keyboard key once (rather than holding it down) move mouse, press keyboard again to stop camera move/rotate. Constantly holding any mouse button or keyboard key, especially the middle mouse, is ridiculous bad.

So, my two pennies worth:

Operate Blender however you like, it doesn’t matter one iota, but please don’t put jokes in official tutorial videos, it does not look professional, keep the jokes for the fora (plural of forum, in case anyone needs a latin lesson). :rofl::joy:

Cheers, Clock.

PS. I have changed to “cack-handed-select” and it works just as well as the previous method… :upside_down_face:

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This quote in relation to ergonomics is actually true for myself. I dont know what your background is but here I have some personal evidence to support this argument.

I got index finger and wrist pain over time due to excessive mouse and keyboard usage in general, and I had to switch my workstation devices to optimize for ergonomics. This has helped somewhat, but the issues origin was and is mainly the overusage of the right index finger, which is dominant in most applications.

The right click selection and how it is used in Blenders modeling allows me to work without pain. It also helped to determine where the issue comes from. So it does me a huge favor in regard of “health”.

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Personal evidence is not an evidence, just subjective experience. There have been no known relevant studies done to support that. Even if they were, there are just way too many factors which can affect it, such as shape (mainly tilt) of the mouse, size of the mouse, mouse cursor sensitivity, height of the table, height of the seat, size of the persons hand, individuals’ genetic and biological attributes, work habits, lifestyle, etc…

Attributing that to balance of usage of mouse buttons for one, specific person is not an evidence.

What is evident, on the other hand, is the amount of damage the overly exotic interaction model has caused to Blender’s popularity. Had the input interaction model been aligned more in lines with regular software already around the first 2.5 version overhaul, Blender may have been much more popular these days, having more users and much more funding.

I don’t see any problem with this, as a user who always used left mouse button select.
He didn’t say “This is better for your health”, he said it is ‘arguably better’, I.E people argue over this. He didn’t even pick sides, he just said the feature exists and explained how to get there for people who prefer it over the other. This is not embarrassing in the slightest in my opinion.

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Since you reject subjective evidence, got any hard numbers on how much damage was done?

Rejecting @karja 's claims as anecdotal fair enough, but you have to see the irony in instantly following up that rejection with a claim of your own that is hard to substantiate.

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I do all my modelling on a MacBook using the track-pad… (stop laughing), so if I select by tapping two fingers (equivalent of RMB), or one (equivalent of LMB), it makes no difference to me. I normally find it easy to hold keys on the keyboard with my left hand and tap with my right, but can also work the other way around, swapping hands. Much of the pain caused by using any tool extensively is what is known as “Repetitive Strain Injury” and is best avoided by getting rid of the “Repetitive” bit. For example, I was taught to use a tenon saw with both hands as a young child.

I was brought up on Intergraph IGDS initially - I had a mouse on an A0 sized table, the top left button initiated commands, the middle was “Data”, the right was “Reset” and the middle of the next row down was my “Tentative Snap”. I worked all day every day for several years like this, but always altered which hand, or fingers I used so as to avoid RSI, which, incidentally, was not officially recognised in the 1980’s.

This does not detract from the main issue here, many options are available - use Blender however you like, but don’t make jokes, or unsubstantiated claims relating to health on official tutorial videos please.

Cheers, Clock.

that’s not embarrassing it’s arguably true since it makes you less likely to have a repetitive strain injury from clicking the same dang button you constantly click in everything else even more.

right click select actually makes more sense when you realize you’ve got a ton of easily accessed menus already, pie menus, and blender works fantastically with hotkeys so doing something other than a redundant menu on right click is great.

with the new tool setups on left click so that moving the 3d cursor isn’t the only thing that does anymore. if you’ll notice in most programs with setups like that you have to specifically use the selection tools to select with left click and while they sort of have worked that out in blender to still allow selection and tool use right click select doesn’t muddy the water by basically putting multiple tools on the same button. so RCS becomes superior design wise.

then there’s graphics tablet users who will tell you right click select is blatantly better in that case.

the only argument anyone has for left click select is “it’s normal” and some vague reference to some supposed knowledgeable masters who don’t use blender but don’t like right click select.

also, right click select for life but if you’re more worried about what the industry thinks of a great tool than making good use of a great tool you’re probably focused on the wrong thing.

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Can someone close this hell-thread?
Can’t believe people are still defending the right click select. That was an error that happened in the past, fortunately it’s fixed now. Let’s move on.

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Yes, I have to admit I don’t have any evidence in form of a studied data. I don’t have anything against anecdotal evidence. What I have issue with is anecdotal evidence based on subjective feelings of one individual.

There’s more than plenty of anecdotal evidence towards Blender’s weird input mapping causing severe damage to its popularity. From countless threads on Blender artists, to over half of the 3D artists who tried blender and gave up mentioning weird input mapping as one of the major issues. No one expects something like basic entity selection to have learning curve.

Look, don’t you find it ridiculous too? There’s perhaps millions different programs out there, yet the Blender is the only one which changed fundamentals of software input interaction because of supposed ergonomics issues. If there was any merit to those claims, don’t you think we would at the very least see maybe even only 1% of other programs follow similar direction?

The discussions about mouse click dominance ergonomics happen purely in Blender community, nowhere else. Even when it actually comes to mouse usage impact on health specifically, the general consensus is that the wrist angle matters, that’s why we see vertical mice here and there, but not a single person in their right mind suggesting swapping the mouse buttons. It’s just such a far stretch.

I doubt there are any substantial studies of for example the fact people like to ride bikes far less in rainy weather, yet we would all reasonably assume it’s true, because it makes sense. The same can be safely assumed when it comes issues of Blender being adopted. Yes, certainly, the weird input mapping of previous versions was not the only issue that prevented its widespread adoption, but it definitely was major one. Again, supported by numerous threads, opinions of numerous people, and answers from numerous artists. I am easily willing to put that up against one person’s “Index finger and wrist paint”. Suggesting existence of health issues due to prolonged use of computer input devices is not only reasonable, but also supported. Attributing it to the use of left mouse button more often than right one is unsubstantiated. And completely flipping an input interaction model upside down just because this preposterous opinion is just ridiculous.

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It didn’t put me off! Can we please put this to bed now, you can operate Blender almost any way you like, you are not forced to one method, unlike many other software packages. Having the industry standard as the default is fine, so long as the other options still exist.

Take Reason (Music DAW) for example - to select a note in the Sequencer, when editing, you must first activate the Select Tool, then click the note, then go back to the tool you want to use - RMB click to select would speed the workflow. I have no axe to grind either way and I think this is getting out of all proportion, given the options available.

Cheers, Clock.

Justifying poor input interaction workflow by presenting even worse one doesn’t really help things. Yes, it’s possible to do it even worse, that doesn’t mean it can’t be done better.

That’s like having a car with a square steering wheel made of bamboo that’s placed on the ceiling of the car, justifying that by saying there are also cars, which have steering wheel mounted under the rear window and that a square bamboo steering wheel would be an improvement over that since it’s at least in front.

I made this thread simply because I found it disturbing that right click select is still being justified as advantageous even in official Blender videos, despite the huge amount of work that’s been put in 2.8 development to alleviate all the bad reputation Blender had for it’s odd learning curve. If so much work was spent on trying to present Blender as “finally usable”, the why sabotage it by bringing up the painful past?

I think the part of the issue is that many people here are Blender users who always have been Blender users, not really outside of the bubble. So they tend to underestimate how much of a bad reputation Blender used to have in the industry.

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I am definitely NOT trying to justify it, I now use LMB Select and it took me a very short time to adjust from RMB Select. I happen to agree with keeping Blender as near to Industry Standard as possible, that’s why I want to introduce CAD tools and more snapping options, see appropriate thread here. The better we can make the modelling process for designers, the more Blender will be used in preference to expensive CAD products and a common input method will only help here.

I am not actually disagreeing with you here Sir!

Cheers, Clock.

EDIT:

For anyone who doesn’t know SHIFT+RMB places the cursor with LMB Select…

I agree totally, I started in CAD in 1981, so was brought up with the industry standards over many years, only coming to Blender at 2.5 release. I found it odd that Blender did not conform to the norm, but learned to live with it… The nearer it gets, the happier I will be! :grin:

Cheers, Clock.

So much spare time for criticism about things nobody cares but not even 5 euros a month to spare to contribute…

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@anon13094437 To whom is your comment targeted and on what basis?

Well, if Blender’s official Youtube channel wants to promote the right click, there are more efficient and fair ways than all the “little jokes” we can already see in several official Blender communication and within the community.

Right now it’s actually closer to cleaving stigmatization than information. It’s always presented as “the right choice”, good for your health and your mind, “the way true blender people do it”, … Basically all these “little jokes” tell that you’re either a clueless sheep using LCS or you’re a true Blender Four Star Elite RCS user. It’s emotionally manipulative, sometimes frankly insulting, and in the long run you achieve just yet another fight source splitting your community. And of course LCS users end up backfiring. But what do you expect? You poke someone all day long with a stick, he might bite back.

All this for what? Because some prefer one way and some prefer another? Instead of arguing, why not just play it cool? Some prefer LCS, some RCS, they each have their pros & cons. You may agree with some and not others, but that’s your personal choice.

Blender is robust enough to let you do as you wish, why don’t we proudly claim that instead ?

If Blender wants to promote RCS, then promote it fairly. Make a video about RCS and LCS, explain clearly what lead to RCS, how it works, show the pros & cons of both sides, with both RCS and LCS users, make it an open discussion where everyone can step in without being shamed of fear for bullying.

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It’s true. The video is unprofessional. That’s why I propose Captain Disillusion create all training videos. If anyone can debunk the embarrassing myth that rightclick select is superior, it’s him.

Yea cus he never ever makes any jokes…