Blender - what is wrong?

Hi.
I’m not sure what you mean by “active at the same time”. In Linux dual monitor configuration depends on the desktop (KDE, GNOME, etc) and the graphics card and drivers that you have. I use KDE and I have an nvidia card. Dual display is relatively easy to configure. Anyway, I’m sure that in Windows it is too.
Maybe you better ask this by opening a thread in Blender Artists forum.

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Edit3: Migrated to dedicated topic:

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For sure, I think we could make the reference images feature more powerful. It’s something we should do.

Some of those things seem like generally good, esp flip X/Y, and the ability to display always below or always on top.

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@billrey Thanks, and sure, that’s because those things are are things that we already have on BG Images on 2.79 and prior versions. Same with the options to hide all BG Images at once, or to set specific Axis to be displayed, as well as options to Stretch/Fit/Crop Images when set to Camera visibility only (which I didn’t include in the mockup). Those are things that were already there and we were accostumed to use :wink:

Because that’s when frustration arise… when we users are told that something we are accostumed to use is going to be replaced by something else, but when we look the new workflow we see that a lot of the flexibility and options we had are gone with no way to replace it (even though it’s known that it’s a work in progress).

The purpose of my post is to show that I, and a lot of users I’d say, are not against the change to Empty-Images… your devs work is amazing!! It just need to take the old workflow more into consideration when thinking what people expect to be there and therefore what should be added… I’ve shown that it’s maybe possible to add all the things that the old BG-Image had to the new system, so that old users feel comfortable, but also made even better for everyone.

Check with Pablo to see my post and I’m pretty sure he will agree, since he already mentioned in a livestream that both worlds could be combined :smiley:

Hi,
I’m also a game developer who uses Maya at work, BUT LOVE Blender. At my work, we want to use Blender and replace Maya. I must to say, not many people (PROS) want this change, mainly for mayor deference between software’s logic of Maya vs Blender.

In the Industry We have Pro Maya user (20 years of experience), who showed me how quick Maya is in his hands (and everybody says, he is one of the fastest). After i saw his speed, I can confidently say, AFTER 1 YEAR OF EXPERIENCE I CAN USE BLENDER AS FAST AS HE USES MAYA after 20.

Blender is unique, all other softwares work on the same principle and I dont like it. I like freedom and Blender has it.

-My solution for DEVELOPERS-
Listen to both sides. Based on given information from users like @MarekHolly, Create Beginners tutorial right after splash screen for Pros from other softwares who wants to transfer to Blender.
If they knew from the beginning, Blender snapping is not based on pivot position but element position, they won’t be surprised, when it wont work.

Thank you for making Blender better for all.

P.S.: If I should name one thing, Maya has and Blender lacks, It would be working with UVs. Especially Perserve Uvs (or Correcion UVs) described here Modern UV workflow/ Perserve UVs Right-Click Select — Blender.Community
Please give it upvote :wink:

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Simon, until you will not propose solid arguments why this is bad idea, your “strongly against” is just fart in the whirlpool.

You should perhaps be a bit more respectful.
And about old users, many of those users have been supporting Blender using and defending it for a long time, also some with help in different forums, IRC and tutorials.

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  • Every new Feature would need to be implemented and maintained in two different ways which would largely increase development cost and hold back development in the long run.

  • The whole Blender Documentation would have to be rewritten to cover both versions.

  • Beginners would have to face the decision to either learn the Version that all the Tutorials are for or to learn the version that “the Pros that came from other software” use but with no Tutorials

  • Content creators would have to decide what version to use and also Split their viewer Base in half.

  • Worst case Scenario: Eventually the two versions would become so different, that some Features can’t be easily implemented in both versions and the differences would essentially split the Project in two completely different softwares and kill Blender on the way.

Essentially i think, Williams proposal to show a “first startup” screen with common settings, along with Application Templates would cover most points you proposed. Let’s first await the 2.8 release and see if you still feel that way.

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Sorry you are right. By blender daddies, I did not want do disrespect anybody. I just wanted to ease it up with familiar term. I would not be angry if somebody will call me old CG daddy :slight_smile:

But for reply to Simon - sorry, this is like it is. I’ve named several arguments, and he is not showing me any respect by replying with same argumentation. His reply is nothing. Non constructive “feeling”. "If he is not going to add something to the discussion, then it is a waste of time, and… you know what… Am I not right?

No offense taken :wink: - see above

Well, that’s reply I have to respect!
Sorry for my previous post, but you could write this at first…
What I mean is Branch on UX / UI level. Under the hood, there will be the same Blender.
With blender documentation you are right.
About beginners – I wouldn’t be afraid of their decision. We are speaking not about complete redesign, but about several essential changes. But worjkflows would be the same for both versions – just with different shortcuts and controls. No problem to adapt. Everybody I know is adapting blender. Everybody is using different shortcuts. And everybody is watching tutorials, even they have their own shortcuts and controls. No problem.
No, content creatos do not need to split. It was several times, I watched Maya tutorials, and replicated the workflows inside Softimage. Knowledge matters, Not keystrokes.

Ok, no problem. Just saying that maybe that kind of expressions are not necessary.
About Blender development. Ton Roosendaal has sustained the idea about the development of Blender “is not a democracy”. So over time Blender development has never been very influenced with ideas from users. Currently about 99% of ideas implemented in Blender 2.8 is only product of Blender team, and users have not influenced almost anything. You do not blame the users if you find flaws in Blender.
About what was expressed by Ton Roosendaal sometime, I agree. You see the very varied list of proposals from users everywhere, even many times some of those ideas are opposed to each other. It would be impossible to satisfy all users with the few resources that Blender has.

many of the inconsistencies of blender is because it has more than 20 years and many features have been added over time, and the paradigms have changed a bit with the passage of time … that’s why in the various evolutions, as happened in blender 2.5 and now in blender 2.8 much of the work that needs to be done is to reconfigure everything together in a more coherent and modern and intelligently usable context …
interventions like the one you did, are useful to highlight the weaknesses and make sure that they are discussed for a better use and redesign

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@Alberto I’ve been using blender since 1998-1999 and I’m a user of many of the most famous programs like xsi maya lightwave 3dsmax rhinoceros and moi3d

I was rude also initially with the changes that are being made in blender 2.8 but with the progress I see that there is the willingness of the developer to do the best and get the best compromise, I’m not with you when you say they are not listening to the power users…
Said this I think you are one of the most critical that is doing so that, as the masons say, come out the cornerstone or the best honey ^ ___ ^

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@billrey I migrated the feedback on the Background Images subject to a dedicated post, ok?

Weren’t you going to stop using Blender so you can switch back to Maya? Good luck having your voice heard by Autodesk. I’m not sure about Maya, but there are bugs in 3ds Max and Inventor that are a decade old or older. The Autodesk forums are absolutely full of requests to fix them, but they persist.

In my experience, if you want to to get something you want for free, you don’t attack the person who can provide that for you. It is very clear to most people using this forum that our requests ARE being heard. However, often what one person requests conflicts with what another person requests, so OBVIOUSLY not every request can be met. In your case, your request conflicts with your own request. Because of this, I’m not sure anything can be done to satisfy you. Devs barely have time to do all of the development tasks that are required for a stable 2.8, much less spend hours in the forums trying to figure out what every post is requesting. I can see how your confusing request was just ignored.

Take your negative attitude elsewhere.

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Alberto is very critical and conservative, but it is not a negative figure, not to confuse things.
Some things that he criticized and exposed were obvious and practical and today also thanks to these blender 2.8 is something better than a few months ago.

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I totally agree with this statement, and it is very well written.
When I am talking about blender’s feature with my colleagues, everyone agree’s that with some internal development on our side, it would be a good alternative to maya for most of the work.
But then, they all say the same thing. " I open blender one day, 30 min later I closed it ".

In my case I am forcing myself to learn blender, because I believe in open source software and I don’t want to give Autodesk any credit when I am doing a personal project.

However it would be nice that blender developers show more interest in what industry verterans as to say.
Blender needs pro user to get more funding. I don’t believe a beginner will give more than 5 dollars a month, and even if he does, it will be one user for every 100k download.
However, a company that currently pays thousands of dollars in maya licenses every months, will willingly give half of it to blender development funds if blender could be use out of the box for some of the work.

I may be able to adapt to some of the UX issue that Marek as pointed out because it is open source, but there are things like selecting object in the outliner, where I totally agree with him.
In every OS / software / and even smartphones, if you have a list of 40+ to select, you can do it by selecting the first element you want and the last to get all the elements in between. Even if you don’t use shift ( wich is a standard but let’s not go that far ) there should be a way to do it, and not have to, box select the visible one, scroll down, box select the over one … etc

So when you have this kind of UX flaws, how can we trust that every other short cut are more efficient than the industry standards one’s ?
I agree that some of blender’s shortcut and process could be better that what we are used to in other software, but that does not mean you have to disregard everything to the point you have an outliner that can’t be use for more than a 10 object scene.

I am sorry that we may be a bit hard on blender development team, but it is because we care deeply about what blender is doing, and could do for the industry as a all.

Hope I am making myself understood, I am not english native.

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industry standard keymap, left click select rewritten for good,
more friendly colors and icons to other proprietary software, “photoshop” style top bar, more standard property panels style, and many other subtleties … I would say that blender 2.8 has both eyes blinked to industry veterans …

True, 2.8 is the reason I came back to blender, because I saw some features that show their interest in what the industry needs.
Still, I remember a lot of discussions on different topic, where Maya, 3ds max or XSI users are not taken seriously by the community. And those discussions, in my opinion, have slow down blender development toward adoption by the industry.
When I said that the devs need to show more interest in what industry veteran as to say, It is not fair, because, they listen to the majority. Unfortunally, before 2.8, and even now may be, the majority of blender user are not industry veterans.

As Marek said, Blender may have a lot of new cool features that are appealing to everyone, however, it is still lacking a usable outliner. But since the majority of blender user did not work in the industry, they don’t learn to clean their outliner, so they don’t use it, and so the outliner is not improve since as long as I can remember.

As a lighting artist, I can also say that no dome light in Cycle is like using mental ray back in 2010. even if we have a very nice open source path tracer, why still using the world as an IBL ? You can’t light link the world, and you can’t use multiple HDR on one scene with render layer easly.

Those two examples, are, IMO relatively easy for devs compare to EVEE and other features of 2.8, and I think the reason it is not largely talk about here is because the majority of blender users does not even know that those features are important for professional work.

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