I agree that they force too much just to change something, because this version needs to be an eye-catching version and people to say: Wow this is so different!
I think the interface needs to be made based on the logic first, and finally, after we have a good logic system we can focus to make looks nice.
And the logic is not the same for everyone. Some people may think the top toolbar is better to be on top because it looks sexier, and some people like me will think is not good on bigger monitors because you need to look upper.
So, as much customization will make happy almost all the people.
Iām glad to see that the top bar isnāt necessary now, it frees up a lot of space.
The tool settings in the properties editor are a step in the right direction, but they still canāt be displayed when in fullscreen 3D view. It isnāt a big problem with the workspace tabs allowing you to create a similar layout , but it is a problem nevertheless, and I think that it would be better if the settings returned to the tool shelf.
Holding Tab to open a pie menu is a good approach, but moving the mouse while pressing Tab makes Blender open the pie menu instead of switching to edit mode as it should when Tab is pressed. This can be fixed by making Blender wait for a certain amount of time (around 0.25 - 0.50 seconds) before being able to open the pie menu, allowing the user to Tab into edit mode while moving the mouse.
I prefer having my tools all in one place and not separated by large spaces like in the 3D editor and dope sheetās headers, but thatās just a personal preference.
Finally, the status bar isnāt important enough to justify the amount of space it takes, and the details it presents can be moved elsewhere.
Most 3d applications use the topbar for tools and not for their settings, sometimes for certain tools some parameters are output in the viewport to change while using that active tool, but are shown in the viewport itself. The new icons on the left side would put them in the topbar except those that are common in all areas and modes, like move, rotate, scale, that would leave them in the viewport. I would put back a dropdown list to create/remove/switch between worfkspaces and some arrows outside to switch between worfkspaces without opening the dropdown list, just by clicking on the arrows.
Yeah, if not removable, topbar at least should be fully custizable in order to be useful, it should collect a user-defined set of tools and options, the ones that the user uses the most. just like a top bar in any other program.
I do think the topbar might show something other than tools. Already in my proposal I divided the topbar into two parts, the workspaces part and the lower part. After seeing how the program is evolving I think maybe that part should be something like āedit modeā area. An area that is defined by having the menu box to select the editing mode, but also a series of help, shortcuts and popovers that help that particular editing mode. But as a repetition of what the user can access by his traditional place.
About the tools in the properties area, it seems to me like a huge mistake, the properties area is that, properties, not part of the tools. first because the 3D area is being made unnecessarily dependent on another area. Second, because blender2.79 mixes well differentiated concepts, tools and properties, that tools have properties/settings and the word is the same does not mean that it is the same or that it should be in the same place. I see it as ridiculous, the tool settings affect how the user interacts with the objects in real time. And that others program that mixture doesnāt seem like any explanation to me (except obviously the sickening mania of some to copy maya). It would have been logical to divide it into a separate new area and give the user the freedom to set up his layout as he preferred.
Talking to other colleagues who have been using blender for years we think that removing the background image option in favour of empty image is another mistake, please consider re-implementing background image. Empty image is an object in the scene that obstructs the workflow, as it can be selected by mistake, or deleted, and is annoying have to have it in 3d. The only disadvantage of background image is that you should synchronize the changes you make to a certain view in all viewports that use that same view.
Iām trying to understand the current goals with the many tool editors so I can make a suggestion. Most seem to not be working at this point while youāre ironing out the interface, so Iām not completely sure of the direction youāre heading.
So, with the tool settingsā¦There are now 4 places to see the tool settings?
I extrude a face. The extrude settings show up in the pop over in the 3d view, in the top bar, in the dropdown menu on the right side of the top bar, and in the Tool tab of the properties editor?
If I understandā¦The pop over will have the most common settings only. Right now it has all of the extrude settings, but this will eventually have for extrude maybe orientation and distance only. The full settings can be seen in the Tool tab. The top bar will have the most common settings with any overflow showing up in the dropdown. Is this correct? Will the top bar have the same limited settings as the pop over? The other settings will show up in the dropdown and the Tool tab will have a combination of both?
If that is indeed the caseā¦
I like the many options for various different workflows this provides, but it seams like this could be more elegantly solved by making the tool settings a view type like you guys experimented with a few weeks ago. If set in the vertical align mode (right click popup that we presently have) it would work like it is where you can scroll up and down through the settings if there is any overflow (not all settings fit on the screen). If set in the horizontal align mode, any overflow shows up in a dropdown at the end (similar to the top bar dropdown we have in current builds). If this was the default behavior of any editor set to horizontal align, everyone could have the best of all worlds. We could put the editor in vertical mode on the right or left side (which many seem to prefer) or it could be horizontally aligned like the top bar with the added benefit of being at the top or bottom, above or below the time line like Iāve seen many people request. Being an editor type lets us use the standard workflow for arranging the interface any way we want.
Lot of characters & pictures. Sorry for that but I canāt speak briefly. Also sorry for all the pictures at links. Website say that it was too much images in post for such peasant like me, images is too big ā¦ bla bla.
At first time buttons was implemented - old Tool Shelf was absolutely replaced by " Button Shelf " and Top Stripe with settings. I find it uncomfortable from the beginning. But time is go. Then developers take back old Tool Shelf as part of Properties windowā¦ I look at all this, try to work with such UI configuration. I really donāt like feelings of working with current 2.8 UI scheme. In compare to 2.79 it feels not same efficient.
But letās check what a difference.
2.79 Tool Shelf
Quick to show hide by " T " key.
If it need just to check some mode setting - just " T " to show, take a look, " T " to hide.
Tabs save its expand state. When you press " T " you at one time see all u need.
If talk about buttons - it has lot of space & hold tons of them. What i need, what I want as a professional.
It was a part of viewport and it can be transparent so it donāt block view, donāt eat workspace.
It has cool vertical tabs for addons and other stuff.
All thisgs described above - maximum fast, handy, efficient. Work good, work fast & do my best with this Tollshelf.
2.8 New UI
Quick to access by " T " Tol Shelf with all I need replaced by buttons I donāt need. Believe me - no one professional needā¦ Neverā¦ We use hotkeys & PIEs. Am I wrong?
And where is now our settings to set it, to check it? Their inside tiny stripe what most of time in Edit shown emptyness ā¦ https://i.imgur.com/zuUAs7X.jpg In all other modes - contain settings. But !!!
But to just check this settings now it need to go up, point and click on button. And it show only one part of settings.
When user have few brushes with different settings - to check is it all right he has to go and click to look inside when he switch brushes. Each time he switch. It sounds like downgrade, it feels like downgrade - it was downgrade.
Also this stripe canā be hide/shown by some key. When you go to Edit mode and it show " nothing you have to hold it on your workspace ā¦ this " nothing ". Or go and hide by mouse and than again show by mouse.
Then guys understand that itās all worse than before and bring back good old Tool Shelf ( I believe ). As part of Propertiesā¦ But !!!
But itās no longer transparent part of viewport! No longer can be quick show/hide by hotkey! It was no longer same good, handy and efficient as in 2.79! It just eat my workspaceā¦ https://i.imgur.com/YiLeOdq.jpg
Where now addons tabs???
And you known what? I feel absolutely f*** up with all this movesā¦ I feell that it is not Blender I love, not Blender I want to work with. There are lot of amazing changes already implemented in 2.8 and Iām very excited of it all. I watch all the videos of new in 2.8. But this useless movement with Tool Shelf haunts meā¦ I canāt eat. I canāt sleep ( of course a joke butā¦ ).
But there is no point to criticize if there is nothing to offer?
So i spend some time by thinking how it can be done to make pleasure everyone. Also those who want all this buttons and etcā¦ I propose for conception of two variation of same things in UI but represented in two ways.
Time to share it.
" Compact " Tool shelf ( stripe + buttons ) for all who want it. For all who just like it. Want to see his Blender this way looked. Maybe for some newcomers for easy learning. Maybe for some disabled for easier using, we must remember them too. Also I represent how current " Button " system can be improved in itās functionality.
" Advanced ". For me. For other who want to see workspace free from extra stuff with same efficiency as in 2.7X. Who need to be fast and do his best. For those who need " quick to access hold all settings what needed transparent as part of viewport mighty old good " Tool Shelf. Not as a part of Properties. Not as a Stripeā¦ And of course on " T " button. Just let me hide this stripe, this buttons and never occupy my workspace with all that stuff.
Also maybe it is reasonable to add hotkey to show/hide this stripe also - some Alt + T?
Selecting all edges of a face highlights the face. What is the purpose of that? It makes no sense. For me it is just distracting and serves no purpose.
I think itās the old paradigm that if you select all sub components of the next higher type it also counts as selected. Ie 2 verts -> Edge ā¦ 4 edges -> quad etc.
Personally I donāt really like it and in the case of edge loops it doesnāt even follow this convention anymore. To make it more messed up uv edges donāt act like regular mesh edges. i hope this will get sorted out at some point, but I guess the selection assumptions are all over the codebase.
the purpose is that rarely the user wants to create non-manifold geometry and as an aid to selection is great.
For example, if you select a vertex loop and give it extrude what is the most logical behavior? extrude each vertex individually? or extrude the entire loop?
When you adapt that way of working to your workflow it has more pros than cons.
I donāt know you, therefore I would never call your hard work idiotic. There is constructive criticism which is helpful and then there is rude behavior. What youāre exhibiting is the latter. This accomplishes nothing. Please, try to keep your criticism positive, and remember that you are slamming a non-profit organization who gave you free software. Also remember that you are talking about incomplete software. The devs are working really hard to try new paradigms. Some will work some wonāt. No reason to get angry about it. No reason to attack others.
No one is forcing you to use 2.8. If itās making you this hostile, maybe you should wait until final release before you open it again.
I think what you propose looks a lot cleaner. The issue I see with having tools and settings in the top bar, is that youāre limited by both the number of tools and the number of settings available. When there are more tools than will fit what happens to the other icons? What happens when there are too many tool settings to fit?
I see what you mean but there is still a difference between behavior and presentation. What do you think? Wouldnāt it be better in that case to have different/contrasting colors for vertices, edges and faces respectively selected vertices, selected edges and selected faces - it would be much easier to see than the current mostly black color.
