Blender is moving in the wrong direction


#41

Blender is beta, you won’t see many changes anymore. We’ve read that argument many times in the last five months, but there hasn’t been any change.

I’ve always been a left click user, and I only see problems in the new keymap, where I see myself treated as a “second category” user who does not have the same rights as those who use right click, to which everything has been respected.

Blender 2.8 only works better with tablet if you are a novice who only uses active tools. Any advanced user will see how can not access almost any of its functions because they are hidden in new menus that are very difficult to use with a stylus, and with all the tools scattered around the interface, instead of being all in the same place. All for eliminating the T-shelf.


#42

like i said they follow a plan, they don’t go around playing this and that ,and i bet some of them use left click so your argument is false…also what exactly was in T-shelf that’s missing right now…addons can now add themselves anywhere and even make their own custom editors, it’s only matter ot time before someone makes everything compacted in one place…also i believe there is a proposal to make workspaces have their own keymaps or something in those lines, which only makes blender more powerful than any other software.


#43

Things aren’t fake just because you don’t like them. If you’re complacent I’m happy for you, but don’t want the rest of us not to complain when we see our workflows affected for no reason.

Many of us had to see how we put money in the code quest, waiting to see a T-shelf configurable by the user, and the first week they removed the T-shelf.


#44

i think there is no point in keeping this talk since each has his own reserved opinion .
this is not like hey i put money i expect to see this and that.u don’t bargain here…it’s a donation not pay to get a feature.
over all i am happy like the others with the changes, so good luck trying to convince them because i am not trying to stop you either :slight_smile:


#45

I have some of the most likes messages from the feedback forum, I also have RightClickSelect’s most voted interface proposal on the single column system I don’t need to know that my opinion and proposals are widely accepted among hundreds of users.

I don’t have to prove anything to you, no matter how much you believe the majority opinion. :kissing:


#46

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#47

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#48

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#49

Everything changes. And usually there are 3 routs that you can take.

  1. Adapt to it.
  2. Adapt it to your liking - blender is actually very generous in this regard comparing to other software.
  3. leave it - nobody forces you to use a given software, and nobody forces you to upgrade to the newest version.

Most of the “issues” you wrote are tings that can be tweaked in less then 5 min…
The default settings won’t suite everybody. That’s why you have the ability to change it.
And all the overused words like professional, longtime, industry standard, democracy, xxx(any group of) rights, all of them are just buzzwords… that literally make me lose interest in the topic.


#50

Unfortunately I think I have to agree with Blender moving in the wrong direction.
I have been using Blender for over 10 years and I dislike many changes in 2.8.
These are the worst:

1. New toolbar
Toolbar in Blender 2.8 is pretty much as good as dead to me.
The developers decided to add more useless stuff in the toolbar and remove everything that I actually used.
Now I have to click the header buttons to open the list and search for the things I need. So because of the new toolbar many of the features now require more clicking.

Who thinks more clicking is an improvement?

2. Top bar
Now this is one of the most idiotic “improvement” in Blender 2.8.
I like to split my viewport in to 4 pieces (2x2). And when I do weight painting for example, I usually do it in bottom right viewport. And what that means is that when ever I want to adjust my brush size, I need to move my mouse from the bottom to the very top of my monitor where the top bar is. It may not sound that bad if you are using a small monitor but when using large high DPI monitor, it slows you down a lot.

Another option is to open the active tools in the properties panel. But once again it means that I need to do more clicking than in 2.79 and still the brush settings are not close enough to the viewport I’m working in.

I can only guess what was going on in the person’s head who thought this is a good idea.

3. Single column layout in properties panel
It may be a good thing for people who have laptop or small monitor.
But I think developers completely forgot that monitors are getting bigger and resolutions are increasing all the time. Not the other way around.
I have 43" 4K monitor so for me the single column layout means much more scrolling which definately is a step to worse. And there is not options to adjust it.

4. UI
I don’t like the new “cool” black&white silhouette look. Since almost everything is now black&white I think it’s much more difficult to find what you are looking for. Having colored icons made remembering and finding things easier.
Someone might think the new black&white style looks cooler than the old style but Blender is a TOOL so in my opinion the usability should be the priority number 1.

Of course there are many good improvements too but some things just don’t make any sense.


#51

Im just afraid of the gizmo users, they may kill blender one of these days :anguished:


#52

No, Gizmo is like nuclear BOMB for Blender. It will destroy everything
Ok, its too much, but still. There should be at least an option to work without gizmo.


#53

Unbelievable…


#54

i’ll leave this here so maybe people will understand better , cheers :wink:
https://youtu.be/LxQ-uqJq3dA


#55

I have been doing that.
The day I read left-click was default now I did this in that order:

  • Stopped working
  • Took a deep breath
  • Opened a good bottle of wine
  • Lit up a candle
  • Silently shed a tear of joy
  • With shivering voice whispered to the silent room:

Thank you. Thank you people who finally, after all those years of pain and confusion, finally you have done what is right. You have made a brave decision to finally do what would always have been rigth. You have decided to withstand the shitstorm.

I can say that I owe everyone involved in that decision a beer. Or 10. :beers:

To your points: Change is hard. And this one is a brave, big change. It will take some time smooth out rough edges. It’s a good change.


#56

What seems to be missing from the current 2.80’s design paradigm is the concept of a passive tool. I mean we have actions, and we have active tools, and then amongst active tools we also have things that should be designed to be passive, such as the selections.

Passive Active Action
Select *
tweak *
Move *
Extrude Region *
Extrude Faces *

Passive tools and actions should be usable at all times. An active tool should only be usable while it’s active and the only way to use it should be to interact with it’s gizmo/widget, the selected passive tool is what’s triggered if you interact with anything that is not the gizmo/widget. Actions are immediate and operate on current selection.

2-80_Toolbar

Or am i horribly wrong here?


Left click select keymap
#57

Hey Man! I feel you, and I am struggling like a mofo and having proper anxiety about losing the two most important elements of professional work: speed and efficiency, they could also be equated speed=efficiency. I’m also an owner of 3Dcoat, really thinking about grabbing a substance subscrption, but I’m not giving up on good old blender, also my goto tool for making a living 5+ years at least. I think I’ll let go of the pressure of switching to left click select since, in maya I know I’m in maya because of selectig with the left, and same for blender (with the right click). I takes 2 minutes to adjust to each software. I think I’ll HAVE to use 2.79b for at least another year as a backup plan, cause it’s hard to beat. I just hope right click select will not be a second class citizen down the stretch. There WAS logic and serious thought behind that concept. Period. Stay strong bro, we have to wait for 2.8 to catch up to 2.79 efficiency and then switch.


#58

Totally agreed period.


#59

Unless I’m misunderstanding you it would seem you are wrong(build from 29th last month):

The layout adjusts responsively to the space/panel size. Sure it could be optimized to be more conservative of space, but that is a different discussion and has been discussed before I seem to recall.

Theming/colorization of icons is planned as far as I know. Blender 2.80 is not finished.

I can agree with you on point 2 in as far as the top bar needs a lot of improvement and optimization. I have little in views of how though, at least for now. But it does feel off to me as of right now.

For the first, I think a change to being a tool pallet was the right choice, however it might be interesting indeed to also see an optional “Action Bar”(which is what the previous one really was).


#60

Yeah, they have made little improvements to the properties panel layout but the “auto adjust” still isn’t working in all tabs. Particle system tab for example.
This hopefully is a thing that will be fixed in the final build.

And about the top bar. Earlier in the other topic I told my idea of how the top bar could be improved.
I think it should be part of the viewport and work similarly to viewport header. So you could toggle it on or off and adjust it’s position between top or bottom (or maybe even side to side?).

The new UI look and all the changed hotkeys are surely a things that I will get used to. But some more colours here and there would help me remembering things and speed up the learning process (and look better to my eyes). So themes would be a nice thing.

But the new toolbar and the new top bar will surely slow me down when I’m working.