Fine, I’ll change ‘complain’ with ‘criticize’. Sorry, my english dictionary is not that big.
As I said I’m still not familiar with 2.80 but I watched your video and the issues you raise in there sound almost irrelevant (or let’s say imho nothing that justifies a 200+ thread). You also use tools in the video, which is not a 2.7x workflow. I used shortcuts (as we used to do in 2.7x) and everything worked as usual. So?
Anyway, i didn’t watch the long video (you know…) and didn’t do much modeling in 2.8, so I’ll take for good that stuff is still rough, as in say… beta software. Still, Blender is far from Moving in the wrong direction.
I’m afraid that’s likely a ‘Cassandra attitude’ that raises every once Blender changes something (like 2.5 UI, like Bmesh…). You sure have your good points (as it always is, in a thousands users community as Blender has) and since it’s too early for me to debate in depth, I’ll quit it now. @Theon I replied concerning the short video. Maybe that video wasn’t good at summarize the flaws
I don’t want people subscribing. I planned on deleting them after the devs either do something about it or tell me I’m crazy. You tell people not to subscribe and they do it anyway. I don’t understand this world anymore.
You can still share the links if you want. Anyone that has the link should be able to get to the video still.
@Ouro, it’s a pain to respond to video. Even if it’s 2 minutes long, I am spending time scrubbing back and forth when trying to reply to specific points. Please use text.
Left click select as default is not going to change. You might disagree, but the people that made the decision were well aware of the points you made and decided the trade-offs were worth it. Even if many use right click select themselves. The reasons for it have been explained here. Discussion regarding that choice goes here.
Release Confirms is already on by default, and the left click select keymap has W key as a kind of drop tool feature.
Tools often have their own gizmos (and more will come), and these are often in the same place the transform gizmo would be. This conflict is the same for left or right click select. Further, we may support things like extrude immediately from the face under the mouse cursor without selecting it.
We could consider showing transform gizmos when there is no conflict, but there may also be more useful gizmos to show to tweak the transform in a way that is e.g. aligned with the extrude direction, or e.g. a way to tweak the bevel profile. So by having an always-on transform gizmo it restricts how powerful you can make tools to some extent.
Having a way to have it always available when dropping a tool is probably a good idea though. In general the relation of the selection / transform tools might be revised.
Everyone, please use the specific topics to discuss things, and stop the bickering. This is turning into a catch all thread, and the discussion has become a mess because of that.
It does matter to me. I work very hard and I take pride in the work that I do. I want to earn every single one of my subscribers based off of the merit of the work that I post not because of some beta controversy. I just got the answers that I needed so there is no point in the videos anymore anyway so I’m deleting those in a few minutes.
What, why? It’s of value to everyone else. Please don’t delete it. You raise valid concerns in a concise manner, and as you clearly see in this thread, people refuse to listen when you just present those concerns in text. They just don’t understand what you’re saying unless you explicitly show them.
This is a “catch all thread”. It’s about what direction the user interface is taking, and that involves many different aspects. It’s also no surprise that all these things need to be discussed together, because they all affect each other and they all just suddenly dumped down on Blender together. It makes little sense to discuss each feature seperately at this point.
Don’t worry you don’t need to worry about any more videos.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by this. The behavior I was talking about was when using Extrude to Cursor. If you do a single click it will extrude to the location you clicked. If you press the mouse button down and drag it will extrude your selection but then hold onto it allowing you to position it. It will continue holding onto it even after you let go of the mouse button. You then need to click again to confirm its placement. I think simply letting go of the mouse button should place it down. This would eliminate accidental drags and be more intuitive.
That is definitely an issue and not one I have a good answer for. However, I would say that not every tool needs a fancy gizmo. Zbrush tried to get fancy with their transpose tool and ultimately just went back to using a simple arrow gizmo like the one in Blender. Here is what it looked like before if you aren’t familiar: http://docs.pixologic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/4R7-Transpose-Center.jpg
Fusion 360 handles most of their tools with a very simplistic arrow. Might be a good approach if you are aiming for intuitive. Fusion would also be great references for how to do measurements. Its got that nailed down pretty well.
That would fix some of the conflicting issues for Left click select but what about edges and verts? I feel like that also opens users up to accidental extrusions if they click and drag on their screen for any reason. They might hit a face and end up extruding it without meaning to. Its the same issue I have with these sticky tools. Its easy to forget what, if any tool, you had selected and in what mode meaning you could easily end up using a tool you didn’t want. This is why I think having a way to exit out of a tool is important. If I no longer need a tool then there is no reason for it to stick around.
My biggest concern is that the toolbar is replacing shortcuts right now. An example of this would be the annotate tool. If you press D to use it, nothing changes. You can draw while D is held down but you don’t have access to the properties of that tool unless you go through the toolbar. I think that pressing D should activate that tool as if you had selected it from the toolbar and then pressing D again would deselect it.
The default settings have Editing > Release Confirms on, it works like you describe.
It would depend on the selection mode which one you extrude.
Right, that is what we have W key as drop tool for. Right click select could use a similar key. If you leave on tools like extrude for a longer time, it’s not going to work well. That’s part of a typical active tools workflow in other applications.
Yes, D should toggle the annotation tool. And in principle we can even keep the old functionality as before, when you keep it pressed for a certain amount of time. We don’t intend to do that for other tools though, at least not in the default keymap. E will remain for the modal extrude tool as it was before.
2.8 is good and heading to the right direction, it’s just need to handle large scenes and heavy meshes in both edit/uv modes also the RAM usage could be improved especially now with real time engine, the tools, modeling…etc parts are good only non-experienced people will find it difficult to use…but overall i give it 8.5/10.
@brecht, what if when clicking with right mouse, it automatically exits the active tool?
Right click is already for select and cancell modal operators, why not to exit the tools? there is some tool that use right mouse? if we deal with the conflicts I think it could work.
Ahhh thats what you mean. I thought you were saying it was already like that by default. I was wondering why I couldn’t reproduce it. Found the setting now. Thanks.
Right click wouldn’t make much sense as a way to cancel out of tools because you need it for selection. Adding too many different functions to one button is exactly my problem with left clicking. In fact I think removing the move function for right click drag would be a good idea by default.
I’m pretty sure that my opinion is not important but as a long time maya / max and C4D user that tried blender 4 times over past 6 years and never managed to “stay” longer than few hours, 2.8 made me stick around for the past week. It is still confusing. I don’t understand why gizmos are not always visible, why I have to press b to be able to select while every other software/OS on the planet does it without thinking and stuff like that but I’m still here which means that the beta managed to keep me interested instead of giving me a “WTF?!” moment in the first 5 seconds.
I don’t think some of you hard core users understand what that means in terms of potential growth for this platform. I’m a guy that knows most 3D packages, substance, quixel, mudbox and etc so I’m not afraid of challenges / learning but up till 2.8, blender was so counter intuitive that there was no reason for anybody I know to get into it unless they were flat out broke, hated “big corporations” by definition and/or didn’t have a student account. 2.8 bridges that gap significantly and if it doesn’t fall deaf on this subject it will grow like a mofo.
I’m pretty sure I’ll stick around this time and who knows, maybe I’ll ditch AD for good at some point and support blender financially as well.
Are we talking about the same thing here? I;m talking about if you use right click to select you and enter for example the extrude to cursor tool. If right click cancels out of a tool by switching to selection then you can’t make selections and use the tool at the same time. Thats what I meant by conflicting. You would constantly have to keep going back to the toolbar to switch back to the tool.
you are not the only one, i have seen my favorite top Artists also interested in 2.8, it changed blender a lot and in a good way…the pros outweigh the cons.
