An Open Letter to the Blender Foundation

That’s a very long time to internalize and accept a lot of quirks.
I’d categorize you as one of the persons that UX Tests should be run by to check whether experienced/powerusers aren’t alienated by a change too much. From a layman’s point of view I’d rather categorize you as the other side of the UX coin. The other half of people who need to be catered to in UX design. People used to a behaviour who expect to keep it in their workflow.

And that’s why it’s a really good idea to get someone dedicated on board. Someone who actually is there to keep an eye on all the users and their experience. Someone who makes sure that a change does not cater only to one type of user (the beginner or the expert) but to both. Soneone who can manage it and relieve the developers of having to think about it additionally.

I mean - just looking at the discussions in this thread shows that managing expectations in this field is very time consuming and you have to cater towards many, many different views. If someone like to be active in this field: Super good! Otherwise though, maybe it’s a good idea to relieve the programmers and feature designers of this part if possible.

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I tried to explain it. Form my point of view, blender 2.8 series has holes in its workflow.

Following sentences will be caricatural but with a little bit of truth.
Community focused on UI, 3DView editor, modeling and rendering improvements as always.
Improvements in animation side came from Open Movies.
And the rest is struggling, let to GSOC students and often postponed.

Existing users will not produce a ton of documentation, tutorials and courses that could be tagged obsolete after 3 months.
And, anyways, to produce pertinent learning material ; they need some distance with new features.

One main issue is that basics of some modules can be modified, quickly.
After one year, modifier stack will be completed different in 2.90. And nobody expected that.
After GSOC on outliner, its usability will be incredibly boosted. But discovery of this improved usability will not be instantaneous.

The feeling of speed of penetration of a piece of information is relative to the mass of people to inform.
There is always a shift between the reality of software and how it is perceived by community.
That introduces a bias in description by commentators.
So, developers should kept an eye on the dates while they are reading users feedback.
The overall picture will always be unfair with new stuff.

But when basics of all modules will be settled for upcoming decades, the feeling of not knowing where to start your learning of Blender will fade away.
To be less caricatural, I will be more precised :
Fundamentals of workflow are settled for UI, Modeling, Animation & Rigging, Grease Pencil.
But Sculpt, Paint & Texture module does not have its brush management task done.
Nobody knows how new paint modes will look like and when work will start.
Because of design document, we have a vague idea of how it should work but no certainty it would be the case.
It is supposed to be well articulated with Sculpt Vertex Colors. But work is not done on both simultaneously.
Data, Assets & I/O module should have its Assets task starting soon, after Overrides will be finished.
Cycles module is waiting its Baking task.
EEVEE & Viewport module is waiting its Viewport Compositor task.
Nodes & Physics module just had Mantaflow integrated at beginning of the year and Particle nodes will be marked as experimental during a long period.

With so many modules missing a core feature or having recent features, there should be no surprise on the fact that current UX sucks at some steps of workflow, or that nobody feels perfectly comfortable.

I think that a shade is necessary, here.

Yes. Anybody may complain that you broke his workflow. And by definition, any change marks evolution from one status to another one.
But there is a difference between :
_changes breaking ancient workflows to propose an innovative alternative one that covers same field of uses.
and
_changes breaking ancient workflows to propose no alternative one or workflows covering a narrower or simply another field of uses.

If the use is still relevant and no more covered, that is an undeniable regression.

I think that most of time, changes in workflow should be grouped to avoid updates damageable to users.
When changes are expected every 3 months in same area, you can’t expected somebody to dive in in order to make a precise global documentation of it. That only happens when hype and frenesy of novelty is cooling down.
And branches system is a good system for that.
Basics have been tested in branch. After development in branch, people have a basis to document and a basic perfectible workflow but that is already able to deliver something.
What is really damageable is the update that brings nothing to users.
The one where there is no gain in productivity, just lost of time in learning a new workflow that does not deliver something exploitable.

We can expect Blender developers to change their methodology. That may have an impact on the long run.
But for 2.9, 3.0 series, that is too late.

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But please. You think this hasn’t been talked about and proposed? That it hasn’t been done. This has been proposed literally dozens of times in this forum. Starting with myself. I even proposed it again to Dalai directly when we seen that there would be a change in the UI team months ago.

They want to change something now, but I’m not sure if there will be any change at all. It hasn’t been done because the developers have never wanted a user committee to have a minimally binding opinion, because of the development implications it has and because they are used to dealing with amateurs.

It was also proposed that a user or users “moderator” of the forum would simply communicate to the developers in a more orderly manner the users’ requests and complaints.

When I tell you that everything has been proposed, it is that everything has been proposed. I even directly proposed some guidelines for UX/UI development three weeks ago.

I don’t think I’m in the position to tell you whether you undertood @chippwalters, that’s for him to say. As I said, I didn’t read the entire thread, just the initial post.

In general I see several topics being discussed and they are drifting from one thing to another, once again I may have been misinterpreting all the thread, but I don’t see a clear topic, just a diffuse idea of something related to UI and/or UX depending on who you are and what you understand.

I got that feeling too, which is why I kept to the original post. In my opinion user experience is one of the many important aspects of Blender. It’s not the only one, however; I look at Blender as I look at a violin. A violin is a really hard instrument to play well, and definitely unfriendly to newbies, but nobody is calling it a bad instrument because of that. In my personal opinion it’s fine if some aspects of Blender are hard to learn, but only if that effort is rewarded, like studying the violin is rewarded by the ability to create beautiful music.

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And as long as we have people regularly and actively arguing that there is no point there will be no point left. Dude. I am trying to have people actually work together and root for it if they think it’s worth it.
If you, as you say, really want change yourself and you want UX propositions to work then you are doing a stellar job in undermining your own friggin’ agenda, here!
If you are frustrated - welcome to the club. But in that case, please don’t put that frustration on others who are still trying to make progress in that area happen.

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The question is, new users who come from other 3D apps and therefore find it difficult to get into Blender? Or completely new users in 3D world?
I ask, because in forums I am used to seeing threads like these (just posting this example because it is recent):

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If there was an instrument which could produce a sound equal to violin but would be significantly easier to learn to use, violins would likely disappear very quickly. There is currently none, and that’s where the the main difference from Blender lies. There are many pieces of software doing same or similar things Blender does in much more productive, easy to learn and intuitive manner.

So while there aren’t many (if any) examples of how to improve violin design or create easier to use/learn replacement, there are heaps of examples that things Blender does in frustrating, convoluted and inefficient ways can be done much better.

In fact, I have very hard time pointing at even one aspect of Blender that’s currently unnecessarily hard to learn and use, but comes with a reward for overcoming that difficulty in some form, such as efficiency. What I mean to say, in many cases one has to do things much more difficult way to achieve same, or even inferior results achieved in other software using much simpler and less time consuming process.

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That is very true. I just think it’s wrongfully assumed that UX focus is always extra work for developers and that features will drag to a halt. That is what many of the replies are about here, that adding features is more important. But if you have to re-do an implementation, change something later and constantly backtrack, that’s surely more work.

To give an example: when I see so many discussions in dev threads about not wanting too many inputs for instance, I think the workflow lacks a step that has solutions that focus on the users. So devs can focus on just make everything correct, and let someone else decide how the user controls it, or takes the discussions with them, test it on users along the way, and iterate over it.

Something can be incredibly complex, but if you make 3 presets for it, a user can understand much more of it, surely not a complex task in itself. It can’t depend on one person though, it has to be in the workflow.

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This is not a new message. It doesn’t help to keep banging a “YOUR SOFTWARE SUCKS” sign into people’s faces. If other software is so much better, by all means use the other software.

That’s a great idea. By all means, submit some presets. If you look at some panel and think “Oh, I think that X, Y, and Z as presets would really clarify things here”, make the presets and send them to the responsible module team.

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Oh, so there’s a fourth place to send feedback now? :sweat_smile:

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It’s not a place, it’s a way to figure out who to address.

It is difficult to try to compare software that only does one function with blender, which basically performs all the functions on the market in a single 250 megabyte suite.

But even if you start comparing specific software, blender beats many others except for features that may be missing, which has nothing to do with this thread. It’s hard for me to find a software that surpasses blender in usability and efficiency, as you say. Because besides blender has the advantage that everything is a single suite, once you know the program you should not learn it again. On the other hand, in other programs you must learn completely from scratch to simply have a basic knowledge of them.

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I think I have not done the question correctly, the question was more like, given my answer, would you
think that it has no relation with what was exposed? (if you have time, this is not important, so you can ignore this completely)

This has nothing to do with that. Those criticisms were early on in the discussion… In fact, many of the modifier workflows now have become easier, not harder because of the changes.

Thank you for your support. If you agree that Blender should establish User Experience as a core value, then do you also agree that the Blender team should embed the UX process as a prioritized and resourced element for the product design?

So, just to be clear and not confusing, I’m defining UX design, for the purpose of this thread, to be understanding the current user experience and defining the pain points (for new and existing users alike), and suggesting alternatives which then can be tested and evaluated. Typically, much of this is done before final User Interface is settled.

And I define User Interface, for the purposes of this thread, to be the implementation of an agreed upon user experience using available user interface constructs like panels, buttons, icons, colors, etc…

To be clear, I am not suggesting HOW this is to be done, only that it SHOULD be done.

If it is decided it should be done, then the next step is the HOW– what are the resources? Where is the funding? Who are the volunteers? What is the definition of success? Do we wish to work on a customer journey to help us better understand our product?

All of these questions can be answered after we decide whether or not it is a worthwhile endeavor to prioritize UX for Blender.

If this concept of UX as a core value in Blender has already been discussed, and either dismissed or prioritized, it would be enlightening and useful for me to review the discussion-- if someone could point it out.

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Yes, that would be a very good regardless if we agree or not whether UX should be a core value of Blender.

That in which you insist on suspending added features and prioritizing the UX experience generates a doubt about what you are requesting. Should the developers in charge of: Cycles, Eevee, Nodes and Physics simulations, etc. be fired, so they can hire specialists in UX things? Because I’m not sure there are resources to give them sabbaticals until the UX thing pleases every Blender user.

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Some posts were removed that were leaning too much toward personal discord. Please keep the discussion respectful and relevant, and please try not to take things personal. Opinions differ, and subjects like these usually trigger expressions of personal preference, which can lead to heated discussions.

I’ll keep an eye on the thread. If it gets too heated I may have to pause or close it, but I don’t think that’s necessary at this stage.

Thanks for understanding.

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It’s not a “YOUR SOFTWARE SUCKS” message, that just may be your misinterpretation of it. It’s just intended to disprove the fallacious misconception that difficulty of learning curve and use is always rewarded in some way, be it with the efficiency of workflow or output quality.

Your reply pretty much sums up the problem with this approach. It’s along the lines of “We know there are better ways to do things, but we’re gonna ignore them anyways. If you want something better, go use better alternatives.”

I am proponent of exact opposite approach, to strive for improvement in all areas, including UX, at all costs.

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Please read the message I just posted, thanks.