Left click select keymap


#1

This is a topic for feedback on the recent left click select changes.
https://developer.blender.org/rBbf7af31e9f7c0177c1d390ab77804f8d556e0e56

Both the active tools and selection are now on LMB, which leads to various conflicts. For that reason the LMB keymap now has a couple of differences compared to before. These changes do not affect the RMB keymap.

  • Context Menu: W -> RMB
  • Select Tool activate: None -> W
  • Set Cursor: RMB -> Shift+RMB
  • Loop Select: Alt+LMB -> double click LMB
  • Mask Feather Vertex Slide: Shift+RMB -> Ctrl+Shift+RMB
  • Node Select: only with LMB now, no RMB

The idea behind the W key Select Tool shortcut is that various tools can’t be combined with selection, unlike the RMB keymap. So this works as a quick shortcut to drop a tool and go back to selection.


Shift + click 3d cursor
Blender UI paper cuts
Blender UI paper cuts
#2

The left-click-select keymap lose grab’n’drag ability. LMB click’n’drag triggers Box Select no matter where or what was clicked. By my mind it should go like that:

  • LMB click’n’drag within an object shilouette (Object mode) or a vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) = grab’n’drag
  • LMB click’n’drag outside an object shilouette (Object mode) or a vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) = Box Select
  • simple LMB click = remove all selection.

That’s how it works in most other apps and what a user is subconsciously/intuitively expecting.


#3

I don’t know if it’s on purpose or not, but the loop selection has been changed from Alt+Click to Double Click. I don’t see it as an improvement. And I don’t understand the change either. Weren’t those kinds of profound changes supposed to be only in the industry standard template not in blender default?


#4

@jendrzych, that doesn’t work in more complex scenes. Box select would not work at all in a viewport like this:

Tweak could maybe move to RMB, if we make a distinction between drag for tweak and click for the context menu? I’m not sure.


#5

Why the box select wouldn’t work on this scene?
On maya, there is no issue with this kind of scene and box select.


#6

@Alberto, the reason is that laptops or tablet often need MMB emulation, which breaks loop select when using LMB select. I think if MMB emulation is off we could keep Alt+Click working for loop select though.

This LMB Blender keymap is likely going to become the default, and it was always the plan to make some changes there to get it into a good state for that.


#7

In that scene everything is within an object silhouette, so I don’t see how you can combine box select and tweak on LMB as described by @jendrzych.


#8

@brecht I don’t think it’s a good solution for something as strange as someone modeling without a mouse, changing a single-click hotkey and exchanging it for three different double-click hotkeys. In one, a very minority of the users who want to model with a trackpad are uncomfortable, in the other 100% of the users.

In addition to making it very difficult something that was as simple as selecting several loops, for example 5, which were five clicks with the same hotkey pressed, to now that are 10 clicks and where you have to change the hotkey you click depending on what you want to do.

If someone wants to use a program like blender with a trackpad the normal thing is that he adapts the hotkeys. Also, the solution is not very good because to deselect a loop they need to use the alt-dbl left mouse.


#9

@Alberto, it’s not that strange from someone to use a pen + tablet or pen + display as their primary input device, we are not just talking about laptops. Anyway, as I said I think we can keep both available.


#10

The main issue I found when using the LCS keymap is that we are unable to select components when using tools like inset/bevel etc… Single LMB click should select, and LMB and drag should perform the action, but the tools seems to not be configured to work that way.

The right click for context menu is excellent and should remain this way. The double click to loop select is perfect also.

What needs to work properly is the difference between click and click and drag… That seems to be the main thing causing conflicts, because sometimes it works and sometimes not.
If this issue is solved we’ll be able to select and perform tools actions with just the LMB which is how things works on others 3d apps, and IMO it should work the same in Blender’s LCS mode.


#11

@TheRedWaxPolice, yes we noticed this bevel and inset issue too. We need to go over the tools and see which ones we can combine with select.


#12

Well, I investigate my CAD software and it seems that it works the way I described (even with very dense “scenes”) but in a slightly more complex way than my previous request reads.
It goes like that:

  1. LMB click, hold’n’drag = new Box Select
  2. LMB click, hold’n’drag + a modifier key (Ctrl/Shift) = Box Select that adds to / substracts from the selection
  3. LMB click within an object shilouette (Object mode) or an vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) + a modifier key (Ctrl/Shift) = adds to / substracts from the selection
  4. LMB click, hold’n’drag within an already selected object shilouette (Object mode) or a selected vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) = grab’n’drag
  5. simple LMB click and release outside the selection = remove all selection

#13

Some more changes done:
https://developer.blender.org/rBd5ab6af8647764d843bfebe9b9e30050070aa981

  • More tools now combine with select click by only starting on drag (including bevel and inset).
  • Alt+LMB works again as loop select as alternative to double click LMB.

#14

@jendrzych, ok, I can see how that works. Dragging an unselected object then requires two clicks instead of one I guess. It would require some deeper work to implement this beyond keymap changes, but it’s interesting to consider.


#15

Yep - this would allow fast workin’ with just mouse/pen/whatever.
…look mom - one hand!


#16

In left click mode, it feels counter-intuitive to right click in ‘Timeline’ and ‘Sequencer’ to drag the time cursor. Could this be the left click/drag instead?


#17

Well, no, not in a naive way, because with left click select, left click is used for, well, selection.

However, the issue is valid, and we talked about a few ways to make scrubbing the playhead nicer with LCS:

  1. Left clicking in an empty area can set the playhead to that location
  2. Left-dragging the playhead along the bottom (or top) could move the playhead
  3. Shift-RMB dragging anywhere could serve as an alternative way to scrub the playhead, consistent with how you can always set the 3D Cursor this way in the 3D View.

To make #2 work well, we would ideally split the scrollbar away from the frame indicator groove, like so:

This way you could still use the scrollbar normally, but clicking anywhere in the groove at the top would move the playhead. This goes beyond the keymap itself, but it related due to the implications of wanting to use the same mouse button for different things.

It has the added advantage that the scrollbar could look more similar to our other scrollbars.


Can we in collaboration produce a working suggestion for improving the user interface of the VSE?
#18

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#19

Left click select is broken since at least 59f0db430a9.

There’s is a significant delay. It’s especially noticeable when trying to quickly select individual faces in sequence. It’s also present in other modes including object mode.

Initially I thought it was caused by the tweak behavior of the select box tool, but the delay remains when disabling these keymaps.
Also, with the cursor tool active and with the LMB cursor placement keymap disabled, therefore allowing for selections, the delay still remains.

Switching to right click select, selections are snappy and immediate again. To me it’s too imprecise however and so not usable. I just have more control with my index finger.

I hope this will be addressed. It’s a deal breaker for me.


#20

@brecht How about integrate the “move” gizmo in the selection tools (box/circle/lasso)?
That would speed up the “select and move” workflow a lot when using the selection tools.
The gizmo would be manipulated with LMB as well ofc.

Blender currently (no gizmo)

Suggestion example


2.8 Beta, There is no gizmo for my selection :/