I understand and reading your response, i am satisfied with your answer about the naming discussion.
for users with sRGB monitor, won’t it boil down to the same thing?
what if i am to use a monitor that support P3 which i have no idea if it exists for us normal users, i am a layman in this regard (And i have ZERO idea regarding what’s going on with apple’s products, thank god). what results will i get with “Guard rail”?
i have a laptop that had a “99% P3 support display” sticker on it 
See? I’m a little tech-savvy yet i mix things up, so imagine random users who don’t know what sRGB means x)
ok i’m there if you need me (you won’t) → 
RANDOM USERS? i once talked to a (digital) colorist online that doesn’t know what it means, could be the exception more than the rule though. (Never base your statistic over a sample of 1).
In current Blender master, users with P3 monitors are getting the wrong , mis-matched result when they are looking at their render on P3 displays, I mean, see there is not P3 in there:
AgX comes with P3 support, so all fine:
Well, you still need to manually select P3 there, but that’s out-of-the-scope of the config authoring, maybe Blender one day can read the display profile and choose automatically or something, but that will be after AgX finishes and merges to master. Out of scope for now.
to me in Blender color management “display” is confusing, because it is not referring to my actual " Display" screen which is annoying. Most pros work on calibrated displays, with a specific icc profile. I have an Hardware calibrated eizo cg2700s large gamut screen which can simulate/show a large variety of “displays” and colorspaces. When talking about “display” it should refer to the specific user display/,monitor in my opinion, and all the rest are “color spaces”, whether they are working spaces like ProfotoRGB, or ACes, or output spaces like sRGB or BT2100…to me ideally there would be automatic interpretation of all images imported with their icc profiles, a settable working space (e.g. aces) and the export/output (“render”) image/video files space. The monitor display profile should be a seperate setting, or being read automatically from the system, to assure the correct color rendering on screen, independently of workspace and rendering space. Yes, it is annoying to have to do this all manually, to find your way in the mess of sometimes not so consistent info on the subject in blender-world. Just an opinion from someone with years of CMS experience in and around the adobe eco-system…
its a case of easier said than done, the devs are aware of it as far as i know, but i have no idea what priority; color management is getting from them.
Also, Go and learn formatting, this wall of text was difficult to read.
Yeah the idea is to refer to display standards, but not the very specific makers and models like in your case:
I am not familiar with this display but I did a quick search:
So if you monitor has a P3 mode, you can choose P3 with AgX.
The export doesn’t have profile attached yet, but the exported file encoding is properly respecting the “Display Device” setting.
Well again the Blender master branch currently only has sRGB display, at least we have more displays to choose with AgX now.
Sorry about long text.
Though complex things need explanatory space.
To me color management is important, it should be priority stuff to anyone into imaging.
I understand there are lots of elements in Blender which need the very appreciated dev’s attention.
I wish CMS would be higher on the list, and practical setup scenarios info centralized.
Agx is a very good evolution and with the Genco Üney config you have some xtra choices.
Exactly that is confusing, because when exporting/render i would still try to conserve maximum bit depth and color space and export into an intermediate color space (eg: agx, prophoto, ) for use in post (natron, AE, Pshop,) and only then at the end of the pipeline generate output to media standards (displays, print, whatever)
That is why i would call it: output space.
Display standards are a category of output spaces, and are never the same as your specific monitor display, even when it is actually calibrated to a standard.
His config included the initial version of AgX. We have a further developed version now.
You are mixing two different things.
AgX and Filmic etc. are Image Formations, they take the EXR-like (0 to infinity) data in and output to a specific display standard (0.0 to 1.0).
If you are talking about “export into an intermediate color space”, you should probably skip AgX for now and use open domain (0 to infinity) EXR. You can always choose which space to export to:
This is exactly why it’s impossible to include every single possible makes and models of displays the users can be using. Are you aware how many makes and models there are, and how random the users can have their monitors?
I just hit that wall a few days ago. The colorist asked if we could deliver in aces, and I discovered that I had to change all the textures of the existing project by hand (or with a script) . Long story short, there was no time and we was lucky enough that the colorist was flexible enough to not care. But still what @JuanGea is absolutely true. If some one wants to use ACES, it should be easy to do and should not break textures. Plus it should be a file setting, because otherwise I would have to manually install and configure aces (or with some script, but still …) on every single machine of the flamenco renderfarm.
Eary, can u provide link to download and test guardrail and agx version with 30% shift and %100 shift, I am off the devtalk for long, I saw the agx % 100 shift and I liked it also I liked guardrails definition of details in blender artist reference. Where can I test these 3 ones? are they still on ur github or guardrail is included in ur agx or is it something different?
And my feedback, I think %30 works to fix red color issue without enhancing/changing other things like contrast or better details
but % 50-70 would give more contrasty definition I think to details on faces as well as litttle more fix of reds to natural yellow
or maybe using 30% like for hues and using 50-70% for only luminiousity is possible? so we can fix red issues while benefiting from contrast or details gained by &100 shift, I like how luminiosity and contrast of %100 or & 5-70 but the yellowness can be &50 or & 30, is it possible to do that? such as in the example
%30 shift that u did
%30 shift + overlayed half opacity of %100 shift’s luminiosity/value (just to give idea)
Guard rail actually gives similar contrast and definition that u had on agx with % 100 shift, so thats why I also liked guardrails less washed out look.
Guard Rail is already ther on GitHub. As for AgX itself, the current (Feb 5 2023 PST) version is 0% per channel shifts, might change it to 30% per channel shifts in the future (EDIT Feb 6, it has been updated).
But I can’t really share the different versions with you, the tests are done in a local testing version, I am not comfortable sharing that version (full of broken experimentations).
Anything above 40% shifts the orange too much towards yellow than my taste, so I will probably stick to 30%.
And let’s move the AgX-specific discussion to the AgX thread in BlenderArtists.
Exactly.
I feel that trying to discuss ACES just turns in to a debate of silly things.
To me discussing if ACES should be implemented is like discussing if shortcuts should be implemented
or should be a thing in Blender, it’s absurd and should have been done a long time ago (ie. a topic that don’t needs a discussion), there are way more actual important things that should be discussed.
@Eary I’ll
Answer you later about the comparison of the two pictures, to me they look different, but maybe it’s my impression because of thinking bias, so I’ll check them 
@Dragosh I think in the end the conversation has reached a point of general agreement that we all are missing, we need a generic way of configuring OCIO profiles that is easy to manage and it’s even linked to the scene , with scene I refer to .blend but it could be linked per scene itself, in the same way render settings or unit settings are managed per scene.
Now we are already talking about 4 OCIO configs, each of them with their leverages, Filmic, AgX, Guard Rail and ACES, it’s clear that ease of use about all this os required
@brecht what do you think about this? Do you think it could be feasible?
At first as blender setting because I suspect it could be easier, and later on as an scene setting.
@Alaska maybe a first approach could be via settings and it’s something that you could try? I mention you because you fix a lot of small problems and do a lot of improvements, but don’t feel any pressure please, just thinking about you as a candidate to deal with this
I’m looking forward to the day where we have a setting that’s available in Blender thats also in davinci and other programs where i can just pick in Blender a setting and the same one i have available in Davinci itself without doing weird conversions, or installing anything extra in blender (within reason), so that everything i do in Blender looks exactly the same in other programs 
Doesn’t matter, it does its job with forcing people to understand color management, the different types of; and their limitations.
as i mentioned above, color management is a topic that all digital artists should be FORCED to learn and experiment with , as well as understanding the basic technicality behind it; this thread does that, as well as serve as a warning sign to the current broken thing that is ACES as color management.
(If a random user enters this thread and starts reading from the first post, he would learn A LOT as he scrolls down)
Keep this thread going.
Dude stop regurgitating stuff you read from vague opinions. I have had a very long conversation with troy and even he admitted to not knowing the full inner workings of ACES, not downplaying, but the color science industry is full of uncertainties and misunderstandings. ACES is horrible for blender and blender only because they don’t respect the OCIO fully and have horrible bit-depth management for images in the name of “memory efficency”. I have encountered 0 problems using it on Clarisse and Blender Octane or any other DCC. The only time there is a downfall, is on these extreme cases of saturated emission shaders in which case is so rare it seems like a very blatant attempt to downplay a very functional COLOR MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, especially artists using a shade of blue and comparing it with reflections and ‘how its supposed to be’. When you actually have to deliver projects shot in 4 cameras and the clients ask them back in the native log format then you can talk about ACES being bad. The old linear workflow or using LUTs or a CC24 is just super outdated and full of bottlenecks. Please stop deterring people from using ACES, and point them in the right direction that allows them to make their own decisions based on their needs and circumstances. Thank you!
Playing the devil’s advocate here - if every artist should be forced to learn color management then there should probably be better and more understandable learning material. Because I am sure as hell that most artists won’t find their way into this thread or start reading through the back and forth discussions even if they did.
And in general there is very little actual information in most documentations or tutorial videos let alone anything beyond “use this one to get a more natural and cinematic look on your renderings”.
There are two ways color managment skills can go:
And since it’s an important topic yet apparently 98% of all users don’t know anything about but should - ideally a mix of 1 and 2.
in previous post above, i mentioned the solution but we lack the people to provide it.
The whole movement and awareness towards “Filmic” started with the youtuber “Andrew Price” who goes by “Blender Guru”… as he made a video showcasing the issues with “Standard” and the usage of “Filmic” , mostly in how it tones down “clipping”.
For awareness, we need someone to make both topics of color and color management; cool and hip, a youtuber or influencer (Someone with outreach and social media).
i am thinking : @ Chris-Brejon
He got some amazing articles and visual aid on his website, maybe he can put it into a collection of videos and upload them? (Although i am not sure if he is still active here).
You may want to look into “ACEScentral” , you claim there is a technical bias here (And i would probably have to agree on the OCIO part), nevertheless; The community over there admit towards the same issues that were lodged against them.
