Blender Support for ACES (Academy Color Encoding System)

I did some more testing. It looks like the color picker in the node editor is working properly.
It is affected by the setting in the config file. If I set the color_picker role there to ACEScg, it becomes linear. If you set it to sRGB it becones non-linear.
ACEScgsRGB
In both modes, however, the node editor color picker always samples correct values from the viewport.

The texture paint color picker, on the other hand, always stays linear. And it always samples wrong colors from the viewport. It samples the right colors from the Image editor, though. A way to sample correct colors in the texture painting mode is to use the S hotkey. That seems to be working perfectly no matter what.

Is the texture paint color picker just poorly implemented? Can someone more knowledgeable explain this?

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Yes I agree, supporting something extra doesnt make any bad, but in devtalk, people keep going against supporting even extra things when noone wants to remove old alternatives.

I fully agree with you when someone try to harshly convince or insist and ignoring the points u make and telling other things or giving wrong alternative/ or no alternatives to prevent any advancement or new additions instead of compromisising or finding middle way but turning into ego-fights just by throwing their own technical details. Devtalk usually turn into a quarrrel instead of being respectful to new ideas and finding middle way. Rude words is not acceptable. There should be some rules about constructive actions and being over-reactive to new additions

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He’s explained it more times than he can remember and since people don’t fully grasp his points, and still refute strawmen, he eventually got tired of that.

Even worse, people that hasn’t read what he’s written about the topic all over the internet expect him to explain things again, that’s not how it works specially in such a technical field.

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I dont think so,

First of all, People might also look for practicality and support for new things without judging idealism of new alternatives.cuz noone says those systems are perfect. So both side talk about different things, one side being more idealist and other side being more practical or focusing on small benefits of something new compared to current system or just simply support for ACES internally
.Its not right to always prevent support of blender on new things by finding faults on them, topics is about blenders support for aces,

Second, explaining things many times is a sign of insistive behavior when people dont expect any explanation

Third, Things u have said are not excuse for being ‘‘rude and insistive’’ or being preventative on new support of things by throwing technical details. Its an offical platform, not friendly talk where u can do mobbing or insistions or bullying to prevent development or diverting topic when someone open a tread for specific purpose.

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I don’t understand why this discussion is still going on when there is a 54.2 KB ACES studio config available here

If you want ACES, download and use it, the only thing you need to do is to open the file in a txt editor and change the color_picking role to ACEScg to prevent a Blender bug. That’s all, I am not sure what’s there to argue. For those people who see the flaws in ACES and aim at achieving something better, let’s walk towards the future. For those who just want to use ACES, just download the 54.2 KB config and use it.
image

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I was wondering… If changing the color management just a matter of changing the .ocio in Blender’s files, is it possible to merge Blender’s ocio and ACES’ ocio files into one?

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this video shows why it would be handy to have an out of the box soltion to switch in Blender between Filmic and ACES

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This shows why Blender desparetly needs it rather than it being a handy nice to have.

I know, as i tried to make someting for a movie a month ago, the whole colour management process from blender to davinci was a utter nightmare due to the lack of native Blender aces tools in the colour management.

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Explain it to me in simple words, Why exactly " Blender desperately needs it"?

Scroll up, you already have configuration files that let you change color management, Hell, its in the video above me , what blender needs, is a better way to change and support color managements without playing the copy paste files game into the right directory.

And please stop shoving this broken color management model onto people because “Everyone else are using it”, if everyone else would jump off the roof, feel free to join.

And for the love of god, addressing ACES as color management and not as a way to transfer data around:
VISUAL ERRORS ARE NOT AN ARTISTIC CHOICE.

an artistic choice of colors is whatever the artist chooses and if lights are involved, keeping the color accurate without going haywire, bad lighting and coloring as a result of a bad color management is a SIDE EFFECT, NOT AN ARTISTIC CHOICE.

*Disclaimer, at some point all color managements we have today will reach some issues if you push lights hard enough, but some methods are BETTER than others.

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@Illasera I agree with your main points, but there is a fact that cannot be ignored, and we’ve been recently in this situation:

When you work for a production as part of the pipeline, doing some VFX in Blender, you have to adapt to the production pipeline, and that means several things, but in general the most important thing is to deliver frames in ACES, we’ve been working for a Netflix production doing some VFX and ACES was not an option, it was mandatory, to be honest it was very easy to enable it once you know how to do it, and you don’t need to “break” filmic for that, just to use a .bat or .sh to run Blender with an environment variable that points to ACES.

But in any case, even when I think Filmic is way more correct, I also have to say that out of the box the visual results and the colors that come out of ACES where the ones required by our client, and in some other cases I found it to be a bit more vibrant and easier to work with by many artists.

  • Is it broken? No doubt it is, I know it for a fact and it’s fully broken in some situations that are not as “corner” situations like the corner cases you can find for FIlmic.

  • Is it a requirement for some projects? It is, full stop.

So in the end it could be nice to have ACES as a color management option (or an OCIO config option in settings) without breaking textures color management for example, right now for us I had to modify ACES 1.3 to ensure it auto recognizes the basic texture color management configuration and the filmic scenes are correctly loaded when we open them for the first time with ACES (for example using a filmic ready asset with ACES), but could be great if this could be made in both directions to make it easier to go from one to another, because once you have things configured in ACES you have to manually go back to filmic, so reconfigure all textures color managements.

Scenes are not so important, it’s just a setting, but textures are a pain.

So in sum, two situations here that I think are good reasons to have ACES as an OCIO config in addition to Filmic, officially in Blender:

1.- It’s a project requirement in many situations

2.- Having it natively will make easier to go back and forth between both OCIO configs.

The choice is not always in the artist hand :slight_smile:

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Try Aliases. It is OCIOv2 new feature that Blender supports from 3.2 and on, basically one colorspace can have multiple names, meaning the texture colorspaces can still be recognized as long as both old and new names are defined to be the same space in your new config.

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Yep, that’s what I used in the ACES 1.3 config, I added required aliases to make it to recognize proper color space for textures coming from filmic and it worked great, but the other way around has to be done in the Filmic OCIO config, so every time I get a new blender version I would have to be modifying the filmic config.

That’s why I mean that the ideal situation is to have both OCIO configs in Blender and to have them to be as compatible as possible with aliases.

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Built-in Configs

The OCIO Configs Working Group has put a lot of effort into building new ACES configs that take advantage of the features of OCIO v2 and that are informed by the learnings from the previous ACES configs. The new configs are available from the project’s GitHub repo: OpenColorIO-Config-ACES
To make them easily accessible, they are built in to the library itself and may be accessed directly from within applications that incorporate the OCIO 2.2 library.

For Users

Wherever you are able to provide a file path to a config, you may now provide a URI-type string to instead use one of the built-in configs. For example, you may use these strings for the OCIO environment variable.

To use the aces_cg, use this string for the config path::
ocio://cg-config-v1.0.0_aces-v1.3_ocio-v2.1

To use the aces_studio, use this string for the config path::
ocio://studio-config-v1.0.0_aces-v1.3_ocio-v2.1

This string will give you the current default config, which is currently the ACES CG Config::
ocio://default

In future releases, it is expected that updated versions of these configs will be added, each with a unique name string. However, the previous strings will continue to be supported for backwards compatibility.

Link to 2.2 release notes


As an example, creating a .bat file with the following will start Blender 3.5 using the ACES studio config:

Set "OCIO=ocio://studio-config-v1.0.0_aces-v1.3_ocio-v2.1"
START "Blender 3.5.0" "C:\blender-git\Release\bin\blender.exe"
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You pretty much went through all my pitfalls arguments.

1.)I didn’t mention in my post “Filmic” on purpose , because color management choice is up to the target medium and the “LOOK” of it are up to the artist, knowing that, i wrote that “All color managements have issues but SOME are better than others”, and you went to talk about the visuals while the discussion on why ACES is broken is pronounced in the visuals but it is a technical issue.

there are other color managements and matching looks for them.

2.)I wrote that i am not talking about ACES as a way to transfer data, you went and talked about ACES as a way to transfer data in the industry.

3.)Your point and that is the same point of EVERYONE else who made pro-ACES usage post here, is not that you are not getting ACES support but its that you are not getting it in the way you want, you want an easy button click from blender and not mess around with configs,

Whatever the solution is , blender must be color management agnostic, that means, no native support for it and no shipping of config files, if blender were to ship ACES config files within their release packages, that means they support it, they don’t and they can’t, they can only support what they have produced, the rest is up to you.

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Use chatGPT to write you guys a python script that swaps/exchanges the luts folder and ocio config of your choice with the one from vanilla blender.
If you do it right you can use any color room available.

That’s what I did.
I let the cycles cache and blender build folder be deleted, compile blender & exchange the color room files and folders.

Also here in the chat are any color rooms listed that can be used.
What you choose is up to you.

This way it’s quick and easy switched to whatever you want.
All that ‘looks’ is usually a thing for post.
I render everything in the biggest color room available, what gives me the most options/range in post,
dependent of what the post application uses.

So grab your favorite color room luts and configs, goto chatgpt and ask to generate a python script to do all that.
Took me 15 min. without coding knowledge.
Now I run this script, and everything is fine and working without any hassle !

EDIT: Also the ocio config also alows to change how different files are getting handled…
So what color space get’s applied when importing images etc…
(Just keep the coding syntex to not break the ocio.config file)

I disagree with your view of my message, it seems to me that you felt like I was going against you, I’m not, I understand your points but here is the thing for each point you mention:

1.- There can be many color managements, but in vfx/animation 3d production ACES is what is being used in general, and in the Blender sphere Filmic it’s what is being primarily used, and that’s why I mention them, and yes, I talk about the visuals because the people who in general use them are artists, not color technicians, and what they see is the feedback and the result of their work, they don’t understand the technicalities, so visuals play a big role in all this, be it technically correct or not.

2.- It’s not only about transfer data, is that it’s not the same to lit an scene with ACES enabled than to lit it with Filmic enabled, you have to fully change the configuration, color, etc… just changing the color, and you can “transfer data” because you have to send your outputs to the compositors, but if you have worked with FIlmic and the comper is working with ACES the result is totally different and the shading, lighting and render people will be crazy with the comments of the comper becuse they don’t see the same thing, Once again the visuals are important, we work with visual results, and we have to be in sync, no matter if you send a full float exr without color management enable,d the result will be different if you use Filmic in Blender and ACES in comp.

3.- You cannot do that, basically because Blender is a program used by a wide variety of users, seasoned pros that understand the technicalities of Color Management, new users that know nothing about color, and mid/advanced artists that want just this to work (think of Corona render users for example)
Why delivering ACES + Filmic is a good idea IMHO? Because you give the wider groups of users to generalized options, one more correct than the other, one delivers one aspect, the other delivers a different aspect, from that we can say that in Blender should be way easier to change the OCIO config, at least from preferences, I agree, but you cannot release Blender without any color management because you will end up people using standard like in the old days, which is horrible in general.

We can talk about Blender being color management agnostic, in for the most part it is agnostic, you cna use Filmic or use ACES, nothing changes, apart from the oiptions you have in the color management slots where this goes.

Should you support ACES or Filmic? Well, in the end it would be beneficial to deliver both together and have the option to change it, in the same way we have OpenVDB or Alembic or many other libraries.

Using aliases in filmic and ACES versions that come with Blender so you can avoid a headache to users it’s nothing capital or dangerous, you are just helping users that know little about this, and there are many iusers that now little about this.

So I’m not pro-ACES or pro-FILMIC, I’m pro-REALITY, and this means that ACES is what it’s used in part of the industry and you may be forced to used it like it or not, there are other color managements configs? yes, are they known by general users? nope, do they have a thread here? nope, so in the end, to benefit end users, delivering FILMIC and ACES is a good idea, being broken or not, it does not matter.

About the support, the blender team has not produced Alembic, or OpenVDB or other libraries, so IMHO the idea that the Blender team can only support what they have produced is not correct, Blender has many things that have not been produced by the blender team, and they support them as long as Blender is compiled with the library they use, this is not different with OCIO configs, in fact it’s way easier, since it’s just an OCIO config, not even a compilable library that has to be 100% compatible with the code users, it’s just a config.

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@Nurb2Kea you cannot do that in a production team, the solution is to use the environment variable with a blender launcher and point the ocio config to the folder where you have the config you want to use.

Things are very different when we talk about freelancing or a very small team, than when we talk about team management, production control and pipeline control.

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@EAW that is exactly what we are using :slight_smile:

It’s a good way to go for the time being, but the correct path would be to have a setting in Blender that we can configure what OCIO configuration are we going to use, and have to defaults that we can change, FILMIC and ACES.

Non technical users find complex even the idea of having a .bat doing this, linux users sometimes find it weird too, and better not talk about mac, because things there are a bit more complex for artists in this regards, so, a setting in settings that takes effect in the following blender startup, and bringing both configs within Blender it’s good :slight_smile:

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