Where are you getting these stats from? One minute you say its 50/50 then you said right click is a minority of users. Which it?
This whole post and all the videos were made because this new update forces ways of working and tools onto people that don’t want them, including me. I’m not the one trying to force anything on anyone. I don’t think, nor have I claimed, that anyone should be forced to use right click. I’ve said multiple times that you should have the option to picking left click, but it shouldn’t have replaced right click as default.
Ultimately, I don’t care how many people use left click. I’ve very clearly demonstrated why it doesn’t work as well as right click. Right click works even better with these new tools than left click does. Just because a bunch of people want to use a clearly inferior option doesn’t make it the right choice. If they want left click they can change it in the preferences. They seem to think that is a good enough solution for the rest of us so they should be perfectly happy doing the same themselves.
Also, the idea that just because Maya does something that means Blender needs to do that too doesn’t make any sense. Blender isn’t Maya and never will be. Should Blender also use a subscription model like Maya? No? Why not? Maybe we should judge the features based on their functionality rather than just blindly running after Maya and the bad habits people have picked up from it.
If anyone has a problem with what I have demonstrated in that video feel free to post your own video showing how I’m wrong.
You know what that graph shows, right? It shows that 82% of people are wrong. It just shows people want it not that its a good idea or more efficient. They most likely want it because they use left click everywhere else and therefore want it here too.
I’ve demonstrated across multiple videos why left click doesn’t work as well and showed everyone some common issues that you will encounter with left click but not right click.
Can someone please make a video DEMONSTRATING, as I have done for right click, how left click works better or is in anyway more useful than right click? The only point I see people making is that Maya and other programs use it but if you say “ok then, I guess I’ll go use those other programs since they are so great we need to mimic them” Everyone loses their minds.
Should we do things right or should we blindly follow in Maya’s footsteps. If you don’t think right click is right then demonstrate it. I’m waiting.
You can disagree all you want but until you can demonstrate your point it means nothing.
that’s because that’s the only point you wanna see, and when 10 other people told you to go ahead and use maya, they don’t mind, then the only one who lost his mind is you.
you need some sorta proof? some demonstration? and that too in a video? give an experienced 3d artist (who has never used blender before) a copy of blender 2.80 with left click select and within 10 minutes he would’ve made something resembling a house.
had you given that same task but with 2.79 right click select (that you seem to love so much that you think is the “right” direction) the first five minutes would’ve been spent figuring out “well how the hell do i get rid of this white and red thing obstructing my selection???”
(even worse if the guy is on a tablet)
users are more likely to stick with blender if it isn’t on the first instance completely hostile to them.
would you rather have majority of users use a broken left click select or a fixed one? you aren’t the first person making a video to “demonstrate” the “benefits” of RMB select, Sebastian König made one years ago, go ahead and read it’s comments.
Its funny that you bring up creating something that resembles a house. I literally did that last week. Guess what? He learned to right click in no time at all. He wasn’t even an experienced 3D artist. This was his first time ever modeling.
I’ve gotten 2 of my college instructors and several friends that used maya and max to switch to blender. All of them use right click. It look like 10 minutes to get used to it.
You can throw out all of the hypothetical situations you want and put demonstrate and benefits in quotes all day. It doesn’t change the fact that that’s exactly what I did. How are you going to pretend that a video showing you where left click fails and right click doesn’t isn’t demonstrating the benefit of right click. Its like trying to convince flat-earthers that the earth is round. Even if you show it to them they still don’t believe you.
Feel free to create your own video explaining why I was wrong and demonstrating why left click is better. Until then there is nothing left to talk about.
@Ouro The new toolbox is mostly for new users and tablet users. It’s better then the old one because it’s less cluttered. I used the old one only for some extensions, because using it for everything else was even less efficient then the current one.
If you ar a “pro” user you should know that working efficiently in Blender means using the keyboard. That was the case in 2.7x(and previous) and that s the case in 2.8x.
Keeping the “Select Box” as your active tool is enough 99% the time.
For example your new video(the old was too long had enough of it after 3min…) to do that just select what you want then ctrl+RMB to perform the action. no need to go switching tools.
The only “efficient”(shortcuts) workflow has not changed much.
you put demonstrate and benefits in quotes all day? (sorry couldn’t ressist)
well i wonder how good that will do, I’ve written enough, in that same studio there were 2 people (including me) using right click select, the modeling department (5 people), the animation department(5 people), and 2-3 people in the concept art team were all team left click select, so don’t even get me started on personal anecdotes.
PS. if that screenshot guy is using blender as his first 3d software then i don’t count that as an answer to my hypothetical situation.
Are you even reading your own posts? Experienced users can’t adapt but someone completely new can not only learn the tools but also learn to use right click for the first time can and that doesn’t apply?
I can’t even tell if you are trolling at this point.
Its weird to me that they would destroy so much of what was already established for those 2 groups. Its not as if blenders user base was shrinking. As you point out in your own post the most efficient way of working in Blender is the keyboard so why break that for tablet users?
Thats exactly why I don’t like them breaking shortcuts that worked just fine. What I could do with 1 button before now takes 2 or is a multistep process.
Using right click works 100% of the time.
I’m not sure what you mean by this but you still can’t select, use a tool, and manipulate the transform widget all at the same time in 2.8. You would be able to with my changes and right click to select.
Except it has. Things like select/deselect and toggle wireframe where 1 button and now they require multiple buttons or are a multistep process thanks to pie menus. Merging from the W menu in 2.7 is now gone too. The only efficient way of working is becoming less efficient.
Not to mention you have to use the toolbar for some of those tools and now shortcuts don’t even allow you to use the full tool. Try using annotate using the shortcut and also changing the color of the marks you made or even delete or hide them. You have to go to the toolbar.
Indeed, when you are learning your first 3d software you are more open minded and will adapt to its quirks a hundred times more easily, a similar thing happens with kids picking up and learning languages. More so, i can link you a blender conference talk that literally reports the same thing!
The more experienced you get with one tool the more accustomed you get to it, that’s why when your boss “encourages” you to switch to blender you do everything you can to make the experience as painless as possible. Including but not limited to… Switching to left click select.
I don’t use transform widget(turned off) because it had the tenancy to get in my way.
B, G, R, S, for me it’s one key press less because i don’t have to press B constantly.
As stated multiple times you can change shortcuts. You even can chose the 2.7x preset instead of changing every shortcut your self. Some people like those changes some don’t, that is why you have the ability to change it.
They even made the A to deselect/select as an extra(visible) option - personally i find it pointless to make extra exceptions for the input editor.
Yes because you use the annotate as often as move or scale… this is the 1%
I’m actually really glad you pointed that out. I completely missed that. Checkboxes on my screen are almost as dark as the backgrounds so I didn’t even realize that was an option. Thank you. Finally, I can fix that.
Also, thats one of the things that worries me. How long before they drop support for the 2.7x keymap altogether?
Doesn’t that apply the other way around too? Why not just let people make these changes for themselves if they want to rather than uprooting 15+ years of work. 2.45 is more similar to 2.79 than 2.8 is to 2.7. I demonstrated that in long ass video.
Its better than leaving notes with the text object I used before. Plus what is true for it is true for a lot of other tools like spin that I use even more often.
Plus I don’t see why my suggestion of unifying the tools and giving people the option to cancel out of tools wouldn’t work. It allows people who like the toolbar to use it, it allows people that don’t want it to hide it, and it keeps sticky tool functionality that already exists but gives you control over when you want to cancel it so you don’t accidentally reuse it as you click around your screen. Everyone wins. I genuinely don’t understand why anyone is against that solution.
Thanks again for that A select/deselect tip. That made my life so much easier.
I’m not using 2.80 for production so I still am not very familiar with every nuance of the changes, espacially in the modeling area.
I watched your video then, I tried to do what you do using left click and… it was really quick anyway.
So, right-click select workflow is still there… 2.7x keymap is still there…
What are you guys really complaining for? For the defaults? You already know well how to quicly change the settings, so what? It’s because new users should learn Blender as you use it??
I’m getting real tired of people calling it complaining. I’ve made a post pointing out issues then when I realized some people here can’t read I made a video but that was too long for the devs so I made an even shorter video. I’ve pointed out what I thought was wrong, what I thought was good, and suggested how it could be fixed while still trying to satisfy the needs of both sides.
If that isn’t constructive criticism then what is? What else could I possibly need to do?
There is a giant post, several videos, and 200+ comments. If you still haven’t figured it out then I’m out of ideas. I don’t know what else I need to do to help you get it.
Blender was a beige, gray, and pink colored mess when I started and there were basically no tutorials. New users have it better than ever in 2.79. I’m more worried about how these changes affect my workflow and the general efficiency of working in Blender. Some options and tools are no longer as efficiently accessible as they were before. That hurts both old and new users.
Thats why I have pointed out ways that these tools can be improved while still keeping the functionality and speed intact for both groups.
Ouro made a long video and described the problems in detail over a huge string of posts, and STILL you people go
“What are you talking about? You can just switch back to the old system, lol ¯_(ツ)_/¯”
THAT IS NOT THE CASE.
IT IS CURRENTLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE BACK.
WATCH THE VIDEO, READ THE POSTS, TRY TO MODEL IN 2.8.
I think it’s really commendable that Ouro has the patience to reply to all your insincere posts.
Fine, I’ll change ‘complain’ with ‘criticize’. Sorry, my english dictionary is not that big.
As I said I’m still not familiar with 2.80 but I watched your video and the issues you raise in there sound almost irrelevant (or let’s say imho nothing that justifies a 200+ thread). You also use tools in the video, which is not a 2.7x workflow. I used shortcuts (as we used to do in 2.7x) and everything worked as usual. So?
Anyway, i didn’t watch the long video (you know…) and didn’t do much modeling in 2.8, so I’ll take for good that stuff is still rough, as in say… beta software. Still, Blender is far from Moving in the wrong direction.
I’m afraid that’s likely a ‘Cassandra attitude’ that raises every once Blender changes something (like 2.5 UI, like Bmesh…). You sure have your good points (as it always is, in a thousands users community as Blender has) and since it’s too early for me to debate in depth, I’ll quit it now. @Theon I replied concerning the short video. Maybe that video wasn’t good at summarize the flaws
I don’t want people subscribing. I planned on deleting them after the devs either do something about it or tell me I’m crazy. You tell people not to subscribe and they do it anyway. I don’t understand this world anymore.
You can still share the links if you want. Anyone that has the link should be able to get to the video still.
