I see your point, modeling is not getting developer attention for large projects for a while. (although new booleans is an exception).
On the other hand, it is maintained - which happens to be a fairly significant effort, and one of the reasons some larger projects aren’t being actively developed.
Just counting fixes alone, there are over 800 in the last 5 years (only a rough count), nevertheless, over 100 fixes a year is far from being almost abandoned.
I’ll look into prioritizing this, even if this gets split into multiple smaller projects.
There is no need to be defensive all day long. I think it was understood that I did not mean that it was not maintained but that there is no objective or project as such for the modeling module.
To me, and I suspect many, the phrase you used, “almost abandoned for five years” was pejorative and showed a lack of appreciation for the huge amount of effort that Campbell in particular has put into polishing and improving the modeling tools throughout Blender’s lifetime. One doesn’t need “objectives” or “projects” when the tool set is widely acknowledged as pretty good.
I don’t know in English, but in my language the sentences are read in the context of a conversation, I would swear that in English too.
And if we are talking about “new modeling tools” and I speak clearly that there is no project with a goal and you know for a fact that I regularly visit the development and report bugs… I think it is quite clear. Especially when Campbell the first thing he accepts is that there are no big modeling projects in blender for a long time.
And let’s see if we stop being defensive all day long, it’s already boring, let’s see if some day we can write in the forum without having to go pending that someone is offended by something.
And by the way, I rewrote that offensive message five times before publishing it. Do you want to know why? Because I knew that someone would be offended, in one of the versions I said that it was necessary to understand that the tools were still good and so on. But I didn’t want to be kissing ass unnecessarily every time I commented something and the message was growing.
And in the end I left this one because I’m sick of having to rethink the messages twenty times when will be the same and someone will find something to complain about.
We are back to the usual loop that will end up with deleted messages in a couple of hours… That loop that prevents us from ever improving anything because it always offends someone, like when I already warned that it didn’t seem to be taken into account to improve modeling performance four years ago, before the codequest, and I was told that it was not true, that it was taken into account, that I didn’t know what I was talking about and that I was belittling the developers.
It’s the same old story. If something is criticized, someone is offended, the one who criticizes becomes the bad guy and the criticism is deactivated.
It’s easy to avoid this trajectory. Don’t criticize on a personal level and use respectful wording. We all share the love for Blender, and we all want it to get better. Let’s have constructive, fruitful conversations to reach that common goal. One can disagree with others while not blaming them for expressing a different view or counter-arguments, and try to understand their point of view.
That’s impossible… if you see my original post I do just that
I avoid talking about Campbell, and Howard, because they are the two people who develop and I don’t want it to look like the criticism goes to them. So I avoid anything that might directly mention them. Because I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault, it’s simply the development philosophy.
I only talk about how the modeling is abandoned as a project with objectives.
I also don’t want to be licking the ass of the program or someone and look like a fanatic that has to be all the time saying how cool blender is.
I also don’t mention “I already said it” because I warned about this years ago to avoid confrontation.
Obviously I can’t find any “constructive” message about mine asking about the subject, or proposing, or asking for clarification…
And as I say, I knew perfectly well it was going to happen, you can never criticize something constructively or not. It’s the same old story. That’s why in the end the only feedback that ends up permeating the forum is when 10-15 users get pissed off and start a fight.
Phrasing matters, you do not need to be confrontational all the time to get your message across, rather than phrasing it as “has been abandoned for 5 years” you could have phrased it as “Has seen few if any big improvements beyond bug fixes in the last 5 years” which would have sidestepped much conflict that it drove while still getting your point across.
This is not “licking ass” this is is just having good manors, if the only way to get your point across is through conflict perhaps time to reflect a little on that and see how you can work with the community better, it’s more fun without the constant bickering, i promise.
The reality is that it is abandoned and it is okay to say it because it is the truth. And we all know it perfectly well, Campbell is a thousand things to be the main developer and there is no one else who is dedicated to improve the modeling workflow comprehensively so it has been abandoned for half a decade. Saying that I have to cut a sentence that is not offensive in itself is not good manners, it is asking for a way that could be easily ignored.
There has to be a minimum of criticism in a message that is critical, it does not have to be sweetened every sentence. And even so, if I had done that, the first sentence would be criticized because it is also “rude”. So in the end the logical deduction is directly not to write the message and continue as usual.
But it is good that you say so because in the end with this you admit that my message is not answered because of the confusion that seemed to be with my words, but because what I was saying was not comfortable to read.
What I am saying is you are constantly trying to get your point across with conflict, which seems to back fire on you time and time again to the point you recognize what is about to happen to a thread.
perhaps this is a good time to take a step back to see how you could get that same point across without driving that conflict, feeling you are “right” is not an excuse for poor behavior
Look at where you have to take it that you call “poor behavior” to say “this is abandoned” and that I have to retract. That is not a behavior, it is an expression that anyone can say and hear without problems.
What you get is to prove my point. There will always be an excuse to be offended.
I somewhat feel you are not getting what i’m trying to tell you, I am explaining that the reason you are once more in a conflict situation is the choice of words you use, no one is asking you to retract anything, what I’m trying to convince you of is to choose better phrasing in the future to avoid this situation, which i am seemingly not very successful at.
I don’t feel like poly modeling even getting that much attention.
Like what did we get in 2.92? Primitive Add… well great for fast blocking out, but I would say that we needed ability to edit those primitives after adding them which also was constantly suggested over the years.
UV tools been ignored since 2.79… literally not “usable” without add-ons that add not tools, but just simple UI…
Great. Just to note, I am aware that 60 FPS on a million polygons is not going to come right away and it would be foolish of me to expect that. Simply getting to 2.79 level (in both editmode and subsurf as per the original goal) will be enough to start with (as it eliminates the last remaining regressions from 2.7x).
We really need improvements here. 2.8 was released well over a year ago. Promises were made, I was looking forward to 2.93 and now I feel very down because of this. I don’t want to make anyone feel gulty but I need to rant my frustration in this topic.
I’ve been struggling to keep myself focused at work because of performance. I work fulltime at an outsource studio as hard surface artist and I need to be able to model with efficiency. However every time I have to find workarounds to whatever modelling operation I need to do due to performance.
In some cases I have to split the scene in different files and copy paste mesh from one to the other just to do basic editing and it becomes just an incredible mess.
Editing anything with sub-d unless it’s a simple geometry piece it’s basically impossible.
Something I always found entertaining, challenging and fun now it’s just a complete pain to do affront. Everyday, 8h a day.
Also, everyone at some point has to use the modeling tools blender has to offer, doesn’t matter if he is doing animation, modeling, sculpting, compositing etc. Everyone has to use it as some point. This is affecting all the users, not just the modellers.
Nobody can deny that you guys are doing an incredible job. But please, I beg you to re-evaluate priorities. There’s a thread on Blenderartist with over 1600 replies going on from 2018! It’s been almost 3 years since this issue was reported with little to no progress on it!
Edit mode performance is an absolute critical issue that need to be resolved asap. Please, don’t delay it any further.
Without a doubt, performance struggles should be dealt with rather sooner than later. It would allow wider acceptance of blender in lots of industries.
